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In Reply to: RE: PPSL posted by beppe61 on December 01, 2014 at 22:59:53
A single pair of these 12's will reach 25hz in room, and be over 100dB/2.83V/1M.Two-way with 8 and round horn with JBL/BMS driver that might satisfy you.
Big EV stuff with JBL 4508 cinema boxes with Eminence Magnum drivers.
These JBL cinema waveguides (on top of the 4508 cinema boxes) with their Beryllium drivers sounded incredible!
Tri-amped with Nakamich Stasis on the HF, AB International on mids, and Crest on the low end.
Edits: 12/02/14Follow Ups:
Hi and great creations indeed
I have no doubt that i could hear a very realistic piano from any of these
But i have learned some lessons:
1) bigger drivers are needed
2) professional speakers can be just perfect even for classical music
Actually the famous VOT where pro speakers in the end
Like also Klipsch ones.
Space is a big constraint in my case.
Only second to neighbours.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Size?
A sub might be a 2' cube, or smaller (if you can live with less efficiency).
The tops can be quite small if crossed above 100hz of so. I used to build a small 6-1/2" two-way with a Vifa waveguide tweeter. I played them for a friend in his 30' x 30' garage with two dual 15 PPSL in a single stack below 100hz, they could bring you to your knees (80W GAS Son of Ampzilla on the tops, 100W Sherwood receiver on the subs).
Hi and sorry for the late reply and very interesting as usual
This is indeed my idea in the end ... two nice satellites (cut off freq up to debate) above two bass boxes
Many Companies do this like Wilson Audio (love and dream about them) does with the Watt and Puppy speakers.
But about your design i strongly prefer front firing woofers like in the Puppy for instance
I could not explain why but i prefer this solution.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
The Wilson are fine for what they are (a friend of mine is a Wilson dealer).
PPSL has less distortion though, I have made units as small as two 8's (AudioPro made a dual 17cm unit).
Hi and thanks a lot again
More than the specific speaker i was referring to the direct firing woofers
Also just one 10" of very good quality could be enough in my case
I have come to the conclusion, based more on a feeling than on math, that to get the very low bass a big room is also needed
This is not my case ... hopefully in the future
As i said just one very good 10" per side under nice satellites should work fine adding some body to instruments
But front firing ... every time i listened to side firing woofers i did not like the effect at all
Or also woofers mounted horizontally leave me much perplexed like in the speakers depicted
Thanks a lot indeed again.
Kind regards,
bg
Sorry to reply to myself
The evidence is in the longevity of a concept
The Tannoy DC for instance is a very robust concept ... and it is longlasting (i would say even neverending)
A very good speaker of the past is still very wanted now, given that the transducer are still in good conditions of course
Thanks a lot to everyone for the extremely interesting and valuable advice.
Kind regards,
bg
The alnico Tannoy DC 12's from decades ago are quite good, I was a dealer for them.
The 10's sounded nasal, the 15's lacked the midrange detail the 12's had.
With a PPSL woofer they would sound quite good.
The PPSL launched the wave from the center of the front of the box, not the side, and the woofer frames are in the vertical plane (not horizontal like the KEF).
AudioPro, M&K, EAW, TAD, etc, make PP with front-mounted drivers, no slot. The slot allows the benefits of loweer distortion to extend higher in frequency by about an octave.
Hi and thank you very much again
But i have a simple question
What is bad in just a 12"-15" woofer in a box design ?
I understand i will not get the very low bass
But also the calculation should be very basic with the right design software
And there is always the equalization to gain a little more
Why study complicated designs ?
I like the cinema speakers ... they are very very basic in their design and they deliver
Maybe the problem is to be able to build the right cabinet with all the bracing and select the right driver
Why not keep things simple ?
When i see speakers like the Kef with woofers mounted horizontally (!!!???) ... why this ???
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 12/09/14
"What is bad in just a 12"-15" woofer in a box design ?"
Distortion.
"I understand i will not get the very low bass"
Incorrect.
"Why study complicated designs ?"
Less distortion.
"I like the cinema speakers ... they are very very basic in their design and they deliver"
See link to TAD cinema push-pull loudspeakers.
"Maybe the problem is to be able to build the right cabinet with all the bracing and select the right driver"
True, no matter what the design is.
"Why not keep things simple ?"
PPSL is very simple.
"When i see speakers like the Kef with woofers mounted horizontally (!!!???) ... why this ???"
Cosmetics, they wanted a narrow cabinet.
Hi ... found this in the Pioneer site about the bass speaker ...
" TSC-1118SW
The TSC-1118SW is a single 18" modular cinema subwoofer speaker system capable of delivering wall-shaking output with a frequency range extending down to 20Hz.
The volume and tuning technologies within the enclosure are designed to optimize low-end response for cinema applications.
The result is a cabinet that essentially exceeds the needed bandpass and allows for extended power bandwidth in ultra-low frequency. "
looks quite traditional to me ... maybe a bass reflex ?
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
It is a bass reflex design, the variant sometimes called "slot loaded."
Used to have a pair—was an idiot to sell them.
Hi again an thanks a lot for the precious advice
When i see this huge high quality cinema speakers i start to salivate
Wonderful ...
I will study the enclosure of these TAD ... strange indeed.
i cannot see clearly the cabinet
Anyway the bass box looks quite traditional ... isn't it ?The Kef for me are ridiculous ... the low section i mean
I ma sure that the rest instead is very beautiful and sound also gorgeous
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 12/11/14
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