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In Reply to: RE: The best bass (below 100 Hz) you have heard posted by beppe61 on November 30, 2014 at 04:31:10
About 5 or 6 years ago at the late HPs home, the Scaena speakers with 2 18" woofers per side playing the volcano track on the Lost World CD. Everything was shaking, our guts could feel it, HP's favorite cup fell off a shelf and broke and 3 of us were waiting with bulging eyes waiting for flying woofers that luckily never came. It was loud. It was deep(below 20 Hz according to HP). But it was beautifully tight and controlled and defined. Show time with great fidelity. And nothing since then has come close.
Follow Ups:
Hi and thanks for the interesting experience
I would look at 12" or 15" PA sub to use with a pair of nice bookshelf
I will not get the last octave but much better than now for sure
Kind regards,
bg
Just remember, a LOT of PA "subwoofers" are in fact useless for real subwoofer duties. Most of them are tuned to give max SPL at frequencies from 45Hz to 100Hz.
A Beyma sm115k woofer is designed to reach lower than most 15inch pro woofers. There are some equivalent drivers from JBL but they're waaaaay more expensive. If you go Pro, you really need to be careful wich driver you choose!
By the way, the woofers of the Scaenas in the box have a resonance around 180 Hz, the box is acoustically small. The woofers are powered and equalized with a 12 Db/octave rising response. This makes for very tight bass because all of it is below resonance. But it requires huge amps and drivers that can take lots of continuous power. But the technique does allow a much smaller box than standard types of loadings. The older Pipedreams and some McIntosh speakers also used this technique.
They produce very clean, pure, low distortion bass over a relatively wide bandwidth. Aside from JL Audio, they are the only 12" sealed sub I've ever heard that can deliver real output at 20 Hz and even below without massive distortion. They also have very low group delay which supposedly provides good transient performance and musicality, although the audibility of group delay is debated. The standard F12 has a stiff metal cone driver which is better for HT. I have the F12G version which has a paper cone GR Research driver which is superior for music (at least in theory - I haven't compared the two).
The only drawback is that they are totally overkill for my 13x16' room and I have to place them away from walls and/or use equalization to control room gain, otherwise the low bass is excessive. They were more comfortable and flexible about placement when used in my larger living room.
I've always looked at the pictures with awe. The Rythmik subwoofers sure look good. Why do paper cones make better subwoofers for music? My present speaker uses aluminum diaphragms for all its drivers and it is the best sounding speaker for music I've ever owned.
Thanks,
John
I haven't heard the F12 with the Aluminum cone woofer, so I can only repeat the advice I got from Rythmik, which is to go with the GR driver for a music-only system. According to Rythmik, the GR (paper cone) driver offers better low level dynamics. It also has a more extended response at the top of the frequency range so it is a better choice if you're using higher crossover frequencies. I also read opinions from other Rythmik owners who think the GR driver has better transient response or sounds "faster".
The advantages of the GR driver are due to its low cone mass. The Al cone woofer is heavier, so it will be somewhat less efficient and require more NFB correction via the servo. But it's also stiffer, so it will remain pistonic at higher SPL than the paper driver.
Rythmik isn't making a general claim that paper drivers are better for music. Obviously, cone material is just one design consideration. But they do think that the F12G is their best sub for audiophiles.
I really like the looks of that aluminum cone, though. Oh, well. Such is life!
JE,
a REL subwoofer would be a very nice addition to those 3.7 loudspeakers!
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