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In Reply to: RE: Sorry, I believe that you are off the mark in two ways. posted by middleground on October 14, 2014 at 17:47:43
Is expert setup within one's home of high-end loudspeakers a concept you have never heard of?
As far as I know, Wilson Audio Specialties REQUIRES that their dealers set up all the speakers they sell in the customers' homes. At no charge unless there are extraordinary circumstances, such as a vacation home more than a half-day drive from the dealer's store. If there is an exception, there had better be a good reason.
In a real sense, that policy of Wilson Audio's sets the bar for other high-end loudspeaker companies. It's one thing to drop new speakers where the old ones were; it's another thing to go through a process other than trial and error to make sure that the all-important midrange is not being muddied up by room nodes in the upper bass.
When people buy $20,000 loudspeakers, they should not accept anything less than expert setup.
This should not be a controversial issue, but I noted in an AWSI in Stereophile 10 years ago that dealers were complacent and were not in all cases going the extra mile to deliver full service, and, look what happened. The stores that ignored me went out of business.
Tee hee.
JM
Follow Ups:
Is not making a mountain out of a mole hill a concept you have never heard of?
You make having a pair of speakers installed in a room into such a big deal.
For any audiophile worth his salt it's not that much of a challenge.
Now if any given speaker has a built-in equalizer or controls requiring some set-up tools why not provide them for the price of admission?
I understand that there are many bourgeois out there who require a lot of hand holding in many important phases of their high-end consumer life, like a professional to hang a simple picture frame on their wall and, trust me, I feel for them.
If they think that speakers have to be tuned like a piano and are stressed out at the mere thought, certainly they should get a highly qualified person from the dealership to come over for at least half a day, but they should also consider following up such trauma with a day at the spa to be kneaded like bread dough or a bottle of expensive wine to get over their bourgeois anguish, probably both.
I agree for the most part. If the dealer is coming to move speakers a little bit but isn't bringing room treatments and some measuring equipment the visit is just part of the buying fancy %*$# experience. Moving speakers around a room can certainly make a difference but when you compare it to what can be accomplished with some room treatments it doesn't amount to much.
Imagine how boring the internet would be if folks were as civil here as they are in person.
Not only are some of these speakers big and heavy but the purchase price includes the cost of free setup. You'd be wasting both time and money if you refused their "free" help in setup. Even if Wilson were to allow for DIY setup (which Wilson is understandably reluctant to allow), you'd be unwise to DIY.
Edits: 10/15/14
Usually a couple of thousand reasons each worth about a dollar on serious enough models.
Back in the day, John Atkinson stood on the sidelines as the experts from Wilson laboriously moved Watt3/Puppy2s in small increments on a grid of masking tape laid on his floor. You can research that.
So, I guess in your estimation, JA is not an audiophile.
Sorry about your economic envy.
I know a lot about some things, but I don't have any problem at all deferring to genuinely superior expertise.
Ciao,
jm
It doesn't feel a little contrived? Was it the most laborious thing you've ever seen? I'm sure it's a sight to behold but do I really need to experience this? I find it about 5% more believable than brilliant pebbles.
JA is, of course, stuck entertaining this nonsense.
Imagine how boring the internet would be if folks were as civil here as they are in person.
I have no trouble believing that Wilson is good at setting up Wilson speakers. I also have no trouble believing that the "free" setup Wilson provides might benefit Wilson as much as it does the buyer.
How many companies would pass up the chance to walk into our living rooms to make sure that their own products are set up properly, if they possibly could? Long term customer satisfaction might be the primary goal but it's possible that other aspects of self-interest will come into consideration as well. No matter though, it's mostly a "win-win" situation as far as I can tell.
I think the whole dang world is full of audiophiles and I respect them all.
Tell me how Wilson uses those spikes or whatever they are called to tune speakers. I understand that it takes professionals to work that magic.
Is installation of the requisite green plants around speakers best left to pros?
Much ado...
If you don't hire a professional horticulturist who is trained in acoustics you'll never get the most out of your stereo.
another possible reason for "expert setup" is that as speakers get more expensive and especially in the over $20,000.00 catagory, they start to generally get much larger in most dimensions and heavier. They also come in massive shipping crates. a case in point, eggleston andras. they don't appear to big to look at, but i had personal experience moving these 225 lb. granite speakers. they ship in a coffin size crate that adds another 50 lbs of wood and packing. this is only a reason of practicality. if i am a dealer and i have a client who can lay out that kind of jack, then i want to be at his house helping him set up. this is a person that i want to maintain a regular relationship with. when his friends come by, i want my client to be so excited about the treatment he received that the friends would not go elsewhere. finally, why should you just not buy online if you receive no additional service? you want that well off guy to answer his friends when they ask why he didn't buy online and save a few dollars to tell them that the extra service from the dealer was worth the difference in price.
food for thought.
Tom Collins
You don't like being quoted? You are too humble.
You crack me up!
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