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Falcon Acoustics is shipping their new LS3/5a in a few weeks. Two grand.
They are using newly made T27 and B110's. 15ohm version (which, I confess, intrigues me).
Best 'NOS' version yet?
"We are all in God's hands... and God is a malign thug."
-Mark Twain
Follow Ups:
They look cheaply made.....
Of course, mine is even more ugly, because it is missing a strip of felt above the tweeter.
This is the first "new" 15 Ohm version, if i am not mistaken. This will make it very, very tube friendly (although I admittedly have not seen the electrical load curve). An 8 Ohm version, like the Stirling model, already does very well with the 300B (@ 8-9W), despite its low sensitivity.
The KEF, on the other hand, does not do a very good job with the 300B due its lower minimum impedance.
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
You can buy complete kits with everything needed to assemble the speakers for about half the costs and from the description, noo woodworking skills or tools are needed. Shipping to North America may also be less.
The drivers are matched and crossover built so little or no soldering skills even needed. At that price they may be closer to what is a reasonable price for those who like the LS3/5 but feel the $2k is too high. If I were interested, it is the way I would go. I know a few cabinet builders whould likely not charge more a couple of hundred to assemble and apply a finish to the raw birch version.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
These mid/bass woofer Falcon uses is a bextrene cone version as in the original KEF version. The aforementioned nostalgia factor is understandable but otherwise Bextrene cone drivers are simply either poor or horrible transducers IMHO compared to what replaced them over the years.
I'm still enjoying my 15-ohm Rogers LS3/5A's in the bedroom and my 11-ohm Spendors as part of a HT surround system. I agree with others that the price seems excessive (probably the result of the cost of English labour). LS3/5A's still have a beautiful midrange that few speakers can match. Some contemporary speakers outperform it in resolution, dynamics, and flat frequency response, but few can deliver that seductive midrange.
As for the new Falcons, they look very similar to my Rogers. The Baltic birch cabinet is more attractive than most MDF-plus-veneer contemporary speakers.
I keep hearing about the amazing technology improvements in the past 20-40 years when it comes to speakers. Maybe someone could enumerate on the improvements and the associated improvement.
About the only advancement I have found is in the crossovers when rebuilding old ones and some new ones where the prices for the speakers are uber-$. Otherwise it seems more that companies simply take raw off the shelf drivers and plug parameters into some computer software and out comes a design.
In reading literature of new speakers most seem to not go as low as older speakers and hence need subwoofers to become a real full-range speaker, distortion does not seem better if it is even published, most drivers are derived from old designs, etc. I had to replace speakers about 15 years ago and auditioned units up into the $20k range with some similarly expensive and respected electronics and especially in the midrange I found few even came close to my speakers that were from the mid-60s and even fewer came close to them in the high end. I ended up finally deciding on buying a new production design from I thik the late '50s but, at the last moment found a set of speakers made in '68 that did better than all in their range and I just opted for them.
My budget at the time was in the 5 figure range if necesary so, I was not as cost contrained as most.
Lately I have visited a few shops and given some listeing time to some of the more popular models of newer products and the best I could say was a range from ugh to maybe if I were entering the hobby and had little training they would be okay but I think in a short time I would find the faults unsustainable.
I auditioned the Rogers years ago and could see why some would love them but I was not one of them and I happen to like the British voiced speakers, generally.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
Brian,
Please do tell us what the make & model of both these amazing:
a) speakers you were originally using and
b) the speakers from 1968 that even speakers from today that cost up to 5 figures sound only " from ugh to maybe if (you) were entering the hobby and had little training they would be okay but (you) think in a short time (you) would find the faults unsustainable " in comparison to them?
Knowing this would give a lot more credence to this statement you've made!
I'm listening to: Club de Sol by David Chesky
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Agreed, Brian! That is why I still use Spendor BC-1's.
Dave
Two major advances in driver technology are increased Xmax and the introduction of copper or aluminium shorting rings which reduce distortion.
That is besides the large improvements available from active operation.
If one likes the sound of lower distortion in speakers is a completely different matter though.
I think that JBL and Altec Lancing were using shorting rings when they introduced ferrite magnet woofers. This was pro drivers of course. The technology is an excellent solution and I glad it is being more widely used.
Dave
JBLs pro drivers have pretty much always been two steps ahead of the curve.
It seems to take a generation before things trickle down to their domestic drivers and another before other manufacturers catch up.
These days it is becoming difficult to find drivers without shorting rings once you get into the mid-range of bare drivers.
But JBL have kind of upped the ante with their split-coil woofers which feature a dynamic brake (basically a third central coil which is shorted) preventing the driver from destroying itself through over-excursion. As far as I know they sadly don't sell them yet as bare drivers.
Although that may be more of interest for pro use or some from the open baffle fraternity.
I have heard some JBL pro speakers and I was surprised how good they sounded. There engineers seem to know what they are doing.
Dave
By active operation do you mean bi-amp using either an active external crossover or an internal big-amp/big-wire system?
If the former, you can than Rudy Bozak and if the latter, depending on definition you can thank Villcher and boys or Art Janszen. If you mean internal amps, look back to ADS and Advent in the early 70s and slightly before. Of course the concept of this last goes all the way back to the earliest days of audio the speaker occupied the same cabinet and was match to the amp and in the case of field coils, even powered by it.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada
By active I mean replacing the speaker level xover with a line level one and one amp per driver.
If the amps are built into the cab doesn't really matter that much.
or broadcast booths. I would find a pr of $80 Auratone 5C's and call it a day...
Good luck with finding a pair of Auratone 5Cs for $80.
A quick check on ebay showed that they start at $200 going up to north of $400 a pair.
Apart from that Auratones have a very different function to that intended for LS3/5s.
The Auratones and the Yamaha NS-10's did have a very different function. That function did not require them to sound good.
Dave
Yeah, from what I remember they were used for mixing to see what music would sound like through a portable AM radio....
Hi, I'm with 3db. A 2 thousand dollar apair of speakers, even though they seemed to look exactly like tho original Rogers should nothat use staples for fasteners,or at least they could of hid them a bit by using black staples like black screws. And the felt anti diffraction around the tweeter looks like a 3 year old made it. Maybe something stamped out of felt with a rounder symetry would have looked better and worked better. I've never heard a L/S35A, always heard how great they were, but if I worked for Falcon I would address this. If you took the grills of a Dynaudio pair of monitors you would never see anything like that...it look cheesy as someone else noted.....just my oppinion.....Mark Korda
Touché!
It's like thirty odd years of progress is a good thing to wash down the drain...
Having heard the originals (gotta love a Production Manager from Wales who brought his speakers and some audio bits with him), I was moderately impressed with them. This being almost 20 years ago now, and of course, I wasn't quite educated enough in audio to understand them (maybe I was still expecting lease breaking volume levels), but within reason, I liked what I heard, nonetheless.
I can't see paying $2k for these though, no matter if they are licensed from the BBC...
If I want a small, polite speaker, maybe I'll ePay for a pair of Linn Kans... LOL
Regards,
Dman
Analog Junkie
The Falcon LS3/5s are licensed by the BBC which means they sound exactly like the originals versions. So much so that in theory you should be able to use one of them with an original old one and end up with a well-matched stereo pair.
Personally I did not particularly like them back in their days and even less now.
...probably the most authentic looking, anyway.
Next someone will make an authentic DQ-10 copy so I can relive 1977.
YES PLEASE.
"We are all in God's hands... and God is a malign thug."
-Mark Twain
...gorgeous.
As much as I loved those speakers back in the day, I think they have been surpassed by just about every audiophile speaker available now for over $700 a pair, which they cost back then.
I'm afraid the same may be true of the original LS3/5a.
We've learned some things about speaker design in 35 years.
Given that they were a five-way. I've heard many three-way speakers that didn't work as well. I always wondered if Jon Dahlquist was a genius, or simply got lucky.
I owned a pair of DQ-10s for many years, and finally sold them to a guy who really wanted them (RIP Paul). I now listen to "one way", single-driver, crossover-less speakers, the Horn Shoppe Horns. They remind me of my old Quad 57s, with regard to coherency, but are much more suited to the type of music I love (Blues and Rock) than the DQ-10s were. They're also a tad easier to drive!
When I was about to purchase a pair of new speakers I compared the DQ-10's
directly with Infinity RS-2.5's and felt although they sounded similar in some ways. I felt the Infinity's RS-2.5's were the better speaker of the two and what I purchased that day.
Just for a reference to what I said above: At that time I was using an early ---{ blue back-lite }--- Infinity FET preamp, that had just replaced my GAS Thadrea preamp. So having blown almost all my cash on the Infinity FET preamp and GAS Ampzilla amp. I had to continue using my Thorens TD 126 Electronic but I purchased a Stanton 681EEE cartridge, which I was told was a great match to use with the Thorens.
I'm sure there will be those that agree and disagree with my choice of the RS-2.5's over the DQ-10's but that's what makes audio what it is and it's the reason why both speaker companies did so well back then...
I'm listening to: Club de Sol by David Chesky
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
...remember Jon Dahlquist had Saul Marantz and Carl Marchisotto (of Nola) helping him design them.
And Harry Pearson of TAS to help him do the final voicing in his room.
I knew about Saul Marantz being involved, but I didn't know how much of a hand he had in the design. I'm going to have to Google Carl Marchisotto when I'm done posting. I'm not familiar with him.
I do recall HP helping Dahlquist "tweak" the speakers, and that causing quite a controversy. It certainly blurred the line between manufacturer and reviewer for some people. I'm betting the minor scandal helped sell both magazines and speakers.
Speaking of Saul Marantz, the best I ever heard my DQ-10s sound was with a Marantz 8B amp. I had been driving them for years with a TAS recommended SAE amp, and an ARC SP-3 etc. preamp. After my divorce, I got "back into" audio. I joined an audio club, and a guy (who I'm still friends with) lent me his 8B. I began to understand the term "jaw dropping" after that. I've been a tube amp guy (with the exception of my First Watt F1J) ever since.
LS-3/5a that costs $500 more than the KEF LS-50 or $1k more than the Audio Note AX Two is highly questionable in my view. I have heard the original Rogers, Harbeth's version, Audio Space's version, Grant Fidelity's version, a cheaper version of the Audio Space I forget the name of and a few others in HK.It's not that they sound bad - but the price to me is well out of whack for performance versus more modern designs. The KEF is essentially based on the LS-3/5a but greatly improved and the AX Two was designed by Rogers designer Andy Whittle and is considerably better in every regard, better bass, midrange, treble, (micro/macro/midi) dynamics, sensitivity, scale, tone, timbre, etc.
I think ALL of these LS-3/5a speakers should be in the $500-$700 range. The competition has IMO surpassed them.
Edits: 10/06/14
Other than approximate size and that they are both 2 ways I see basically no relationship between any LS3/5a or even the Audio Note. They all sound very different and are designed to different purposes.
But I agree with you sonically. The LS3/5a is a wonderful classic for its day and it probably gets less criticism than it would were it not for that and nostalgia. But we have learned something in 4 decades.
You nailed it. Nostalgia. You're right that these other two don;t sound like the LS-3/5a. I think that's kind of a good thing though.
I'm the first guy to say that there are some classic speakers that sound pretty great today. Plenty of others I would love to see an Audio Note treatment given. They basically took an older designed and revamped the heck out of it and carried it to ridiculous heights. But you could probably do that to 3 dozen other speakers. What if you took ABC speaker and used better drivers, cabinets, internal damping materials, cables, caps, etc. I think we have all heard speakers where we think "this is close to being something special."
That word Nostalgia is key. Perhaps it is the age of the person but I remember a fellow talking about being a kid and dreaming of owning the Quad ESL for 20 years and then he finally got them. As someone who didn't grow up in the era I have no Nostalgia factor for them (or tubes or turntables for that matter) and so when I compared the old Quads to new speakers I didn't have 20 years of wish fulfillment in the game.
I compare the LS-3/5a to any other standmount in the price range.
Using better drivers means different drivers which means a new enclosure design and a new crossover design. It's a new speaker.
RGA
I listened to the KEF recently and liked it a lot. But I felt my old Rogers 15 ohm LS3/5A had better body to the sound. 'Sandy' washed away my Rogers so no direct comparison possible now. Maybe that body is at the expense of some clarity but I consider body to be 'musical'. Perhaps Audio Note has both.
Are you OK in HK?
Regards
Bill
Thanks man sorry to hear you lost classic gear. The KEF's big drawback is the difficulty of drive. I utterly hated them at dealers and at the California Audio Show. The price somewhat belies the quality of gear that must be put with them. The LS-3/5a I reviewed is pretty happy with everything in the budget realm - so on that there is a big plus in the column. Easy loads if a little insensitive. But the KEF with albeit work is a pretty great speaker. I like the AX Two because it's BY FAR the cheapest of the lot (ahem isn't AN supposedly overpriced?) has the mid and treble spot on and "almost" the bass of the KEF.
So far the situation is pretty stable in HK. The students are meeting with the government today. I am impressed by the students being able to band together (under the leadership of a 17 year old) but the Triads for some strange reason have involved themselves on the government side and have started some fights. This group was successful in stopping proposals to change the education system 2 years ago (when the student was 15). Mainland China is patient. They wanted to bring in Mainland Chinese ethics and history. So they have been able to get things changed - democracy is pushing it but perhaps there is a solution that will keep both sides happy. HK for the most part works and I understand why some don't want it screwed up.
Hi Richard - Glad to hear you're okay. I was wondering since you haven't been on the Dagogo listening forum for a while. What do you have for review currently? Cheers, Paul
I am reviewing the Line Magnetic 502CA DAC and the Audio Note E/Lexus
I'm trying to find some inspiration as to what to look for next. I'm looking to buy a preamp next so I would like to explore some of those. Can't review power amps without a preamp!
Open to suggestions Paul :)
Here you go: http://www.iconaudio.com/portfolio-category/preamplifiers/
I wanted to review one of their amps but the U.S. distributor was a real pain, so I dropped the request. The closest distributors to you are in Australia and New Zealand but you might be able to work out something.
Thanks..
But I had to laugh - if as a reviewer you felt they were a pain to deal with what would consumers go through?
I don't love bringing in stuff I can't hear first but I'll keep an eye out for them in HK. It is tube crazy land here which suits me fine.
They look similar to some Rat Shack speakers from the 1970s.
I'm surrounded by philistines.
"We are all in God's hands... and God is a malign thug."
-Mark Twain
It might be the ugliest LS3/5a rendition. I prefer good sound over cosmetics but come on now, $2,000 for those?
Yes, because they look SO DIFFERENT from any other British made bbc authorized LS3/5a.
Yes, because they look SO DIFFERENT from any other British made bbc authorized LS3/5a.
These are the first LS3/5a's made with real T27 and B110 drivers in over twelve years.
"We are all in God's hands... and God is a malign thug."
-Mark Twain
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