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196.215.1.102
In Reply to: RE: "Big front flat surface" - negative or positive? posted by genungo on October 04, 2014 at 07:58:06
Sorry my mistake, the big flat surface in the front can only be a negative. It is a problem with lots of box speakers.
Follow Ups:
So what you are saying is that all the speaker designers like Peter Snell and others are all wrong but YOU know better? Everyone is entitled to their opinon however uneducated......
There are a lot of people who are swearing by speakers like this and those from Audio Note that use a similar principle. The old Snells that the ANs derive from still have a following today.
I could argue that ANY enclosure is a negative and at least in some ways I would be right. A good full range electrostatic speaker or a good two-way ribbon speaker will sound at least if not more conherent than the Giyas (I have heard at length all but the smallest newest one) with at least as high resolution but perhaps only lacking ultimate power. Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing Giyas...they are very good and one of the most successful multi-way speakers I have heard (using drivers of all the same materials helps this a lot) but they are not time coherent and this can be heard with the right electronics and source material.
I have heard several horn speaker designs that I would choose over Giyas because they have something that neither the Giyas nor my electrostats and ribbons of the past had...dynamic jump factor that gets one closer to a "live" experience.
Even though I think my current Reference 3a Master Control MMC with Be tweeters are great (they truly disappear despite having a wide(ish) front baffle) and have good sensitivity (92db 8ohm), they still fall behind the better horns in liveness.
I haven't heard these Devore speakers but I would guess they have a smooth powerful sound that is somewhat colored compared to something like the Vivids but with great dynamics (not as much as a good horn though) and excellent overall coherence (simple 2-way). If the coloration doesn't bother then the resolution is likely to be good as well...if not electrostatic like.
I once heard a pair of JBL Olympus speakers, which are broad and short. The bass is reflex the mids and highs were horn I believe. One first listen they sounded horribly colored but after about 30 minutes you sort of forgot the coloration and realized that there was some superb dynamic expression and high resolution. I couldn't live with them overall but one could largely ignore the coloration.
Horns have always been problematic for me, yes they can sound amazing and dynamic but in general you have to select your source material carefully.
The beauty of the Vivid's is that they sound good on everything.
Every time I play a recording I did not hear before I am amazed.
They are source friendly and perfect for a music lovers.
Did you hear the recent Giya's versions with the new crossover??
the 2 way vivid are on my list of must listen. Ill try to ahve a audition and compare them with AN J
I think that it was John Marks from Stereophile that said on this forum
that these Oval Vivid speakers where the most coherent speakers he heard.
I don't know for sure but since I heard them again this year I would guess so. Dont get me wrong, I think the Vivids are beating most conventional speakers out there in that class like YG, Magico, Wilson, Kharma etc. I just simply was much much much more impressed with the horn systems I have heard recently...like the designers really got it together. They just sound more like a live event to me and I come from a long line of planar speakers where transparency and coloration are much lower than with most speakers. I am very sensitive to it so and used to hate a lot of the horns I heard as a result.
Listen to Odeon, Living Voice, Acapella and some others and you start to wonder how dynamic speakers ever took hold. I just got (another) pair of Odeons (I had some small ones in the past and liked very much what they did). Big ones that are a fully horn loaded 2-way. 98db and VERY coherent sounding. A friend of mine just picked up a pair of Living Voice Air Scouts (105db!) but I haven't heard them yet...very curious.
The new crossover ads 1.5 db efficiency, so on the leaflet it says that the 2's are 91 db's which I personally do not believe as my previous speakers where 91 db's and according to my amp I need to ad 4db to get to the same volume level.
The only horn speakers I am very familiar with are the Italian made Zingali's range which look beautiful and did sound excellent on some music but too uneven to live with them. We kept them in the shop where I worked thus know them very well. I also built a pair using Lowther drivers many years ago, but again the sound quality was too erratic.
Oh I am also familiar with the Rethm but again not for me.
So my experience is limited I never heard a horn design I could live with.
There are negatives and positives to every design being used today. What matters is how effectively the different elements of a design work together to create a unified design statement.It could be that some designs are easier to implement than others are, but what matters most is how successful the implementation is. The Giya design seems to be a very successful one but it might be assumed that more than the usual amount of time and resources have gone into making sure that every aspect of it's design functions as a harmonious, wholistic system.
Edits: 10/05/14 10/05/14 10/05/14
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