|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
202.4.201.60
In Reply to: RE: The Devore OrangutanHi posted by mark.korda@myfairpoint.net on October 02, 2014 at 21:14:41
As an owner of the AN E and AN J speakers that are similar in respects to the Orangutan that you mention it comes down to making choices of what you can and can't live without. A single driver has limitations as you would expect t. Once you go two way you reduce ultimate coherence because two drivers are not as seamless as one. You gain dynamics, bass, treble extension, volume level, and a denser quality usually. Go to 3,4,5+ way and you should gain even more while losing more coherence along the way. But playing BIG music at higher levels the big speakers have a better chance of doing it better. For me they usually all fall down doing Eva Cassidy playing guitar. Since the bulk of music is jazz ensembles and singer at piano I would take speakers like the orangutans. They do big music better than big speakers do small music IMO.
Follow Ups:
Coherence??? one of the most coherent speaker I ever heard are the Vivid Giya's, yet they are 4 ways?
Just listen to piano music on them!!! amazing!!
Cross over design is obviously very important and the lack of a big front flat surface can only be a negative.
I've auditioned a few speakers from Vivid Audio. I always listen to piano music - I start with vocals and piano. And my fellow dagogo reviewer reviewed Ed Momkus bought the $58,000 Giya G1. Exceptions perhaps but in my auditions with models in the same price vicinity - the Devore, ANs, Trenner and Freidle Ra Box I find sound better.Ultimately, what I have heard from them hasn't struck the emotional chord with me and hasn't given me the goose-bump factor that I would want for the coin being asked. I like the looks, also liked the looks when B&W did it. And the Model Nautilus also didn't move me. Probably why there are so many different speaker camps.
Edits: 10/04/14
I always found loudspeakers with big flat front panels a little colored
or should I say uneven in the mids. I searched for years for the (to me)
perfect speakers and finally bought the Giya's 2 and at last I am in audio heaven. I never heard Orangutans'
But I think that I would find it difficult to go back to "box" loudspeakers, and luckily for me living in South Africa where the Giya's are made the pricing is much more attractive, due to the fact that there
is no freight or duties.
The Giyas are very good and it is one of the few multi-driver speakers that sounds relatively coherent. That said it is not the same degree of coherence as the best single driver, electrostat, or two-way designs I have heard. It has other advantages but a true time coherent speaker is more effortlessly natural sounding, IMO.
I'm listening to: Club de Sol by David Chesky
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
The beauty of the Giyas with the narrow baffle (and the dome midrange)
is that they disappear completely I am not aware of listening to loudspeakers, which is my problem with most box loudspeakers you are always aware of them. The Giyas have very little character of their own.
Single drivers and electrostatics have other problems which to my ears are much are bigger compromises. But then again we all look for different qualities. I've heard many loudspeakers having worked in a high end audio shop and the Giyas are an excellent compromise.
Another speaker that I think is an excellent coherent source is the Thiel CS3.7. It is a point source from 300-Hz up, and it is supposedly linear phase to ±10-degrees. I've owned them two years and they are the most uncolored, neutral speakers I've ever owned. Every time I listen I am impressed with their natural sound quality, and this is after two years of nearly daily listening. I basically can't tolerate other speakers so I use them for TV and DVD movies, too. I'm hoping I don't wear them out prematurely. ;-)
Best regards,
John Elison
.....
I have a hard time believing that a 10" 2-way with a 1" tweeter can provide a reasonably uniform off-axis (say, 30 degrees) output. This resurrects the "single chair" and "bad ambient sound" issues of yester-year.:)
Edits: 10/06/14
I assume you are talking about the Orangutan speakers. Have you ever heard them? I heard them at a show and I thought they were seriously colored and boxy. Perhaps I wasn't sitting in the sweet spot, but I didn't care for them.
Best regards,
John Elison
Actually, I was talking about the OrangeTang.
(Sorry... lost you for a second there, I moved off-axis.)
;)
Didn't you mean to say "... the lack of a big front flat surface can only be a *positive*." ? I'm not saying I agree but I wonder if this is a typo in your post...
Sorry my mistake, the big flat surface in the front can only be a negative. It is a problem with lots of box speakers.
So what you are saying is that all the speaker designers like Peter Snell and others are all wrong but YOU know better? Everyone is entitled to their opinon however uneducated......
There are a lot of people who are swearing by speakers like this and those from Audio Note that use a similar principle. The old Snells that the ANs derive from still have a following today.
I could argue that ANY enclosure is a negative and at least in some ways I would be right. A good full range electrostatic speaker or a good two-way ribbon speaker will sound at least if not more conherent than the Giyas (I have heard at length all but the smallest newest one) with at least as high resolution but perhaps only lacking ultimate power. Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing Giyas...they are very good and one of the most successful multi-way speakers I have heard (using drivers of all the same materials helps this a lot) but they are not time coherent and this can be heard with the right electronics and source material.
I have heard several horn speaker designs that I would choose over Giyas because they have something that neither the Giyas nor my electrostats and ribbons of the past had...dynamic jump factor that gets one closer to a "live" experience.
Even though I think my current Reference 3a Master Control MMC with Be tweeters are great (they truly disappear despite having a wide(ish) front baffle) and have good sensitivity (92db 8ohm), they still fall behind the better horns in liveness.
I haven't heard these Devore speakers but I would guess they have a smooth powerful sound that is somewhat colored compared to something like the Vivids but with great dynamics (not as much as a good horn though) and excellent overall coherence (simple 2-way). If the coloration doesn't bother then the resolution is likely to be good as well...if not electrostatic like.
I once heard a pair of JBL Olympus speakers, which are broad and short. The bass is reflex the mids and highs were horn I believe. One first listen they sounded horribly colored but after about 30 minutes you sort of forgot the coloration and realized that there was some superb dynamic expression and high resolution. I couldn't live with them overall but one could largely ignore the coloration.
Horns have always been problematic for me, yes they can sound amazing and dynamic but in general you have to select your source material carefully.
The beauty of the Vivid's is that they sound good on everything.
Every time I play a recording I did not hear before I am amazed.
They are source friendly and perfect for a music lovers.
Did you hear the recent Giya's versions with the new crossover??
the 2 way vivid are on my list of must listen. Ill try to ahve a audition and compare them with AN J
I think that it was John Marks from Stereophile that said on this forum
that these Oval Vivid speakers where the most coherent speakers he heard.
I don't know for sure but since I heard them again this year I would guess so. Dont get me wrong, I think the Vivids are beating most conventional speakers out there in that class like YG, Magico, Wilson, Kharma etc. I just simply was much much much more impressed with the horn systems I have heard recently...like the designers really got it together. They just sound more like a live event to me and I come from a long line of planar speakers where transparency and coloration are much lower than with most speakers. I am very sensitive to it so and used to hate a lot of the horns I heard as a result.
Listen to Odeon, Living Voice, Acapella and some others and you start to wonder how dynamic speakers ever took hold. I just got (another) pair of Odeons (I had some small ones in the past and liked very much what they did). Big ones that are a fully horn loaded 2-way. 98db and VERY coherent sounding. A friend of mine just picked up a pair of Living Voice Air Scouts (105db!) but I haven't heard them yet...very curious.
The new crossover ads 1.5 db efficiency, so on the leaflet it says that the 2's are 91 db's which I personally do not believe as my previous speakers where 91 db's and according to my amp I need to ad 4db to get to the same volume level.
The only horn speakers I am very familiar with are the Italian made Zingali's range which look beautiful and did sound excellent on some music but too uneven to live with them. We kept them in the shop where I worked thus know them very well. I also built a pair using Lowther drivers many years ago, but again the sound quality was too erratic.
Oh I am also familiar with the Rethm but again not for me.
So my experience is limited I never heard a horn design I could live with.
There are negatives and positives to every design being used today. What matters is how effectively the different elements of a design work together to create a unified design statement.It could be that some designs are easier to implement than others are, but what matters most is how successful the implementation is. The Giya design seems to be a very successful one but it might be assumed that more than the usual amount of time and resources have gone into making sure that every aspect of it's design functions as a harmonious, wholistic system.
Edits: 10/05/14 10/05/14 10/05/14
Hi,You guys are the best! I posed a question and I got a education from people in the know...thanks for all the help from you all. Devore never really shows the horn loading of their flag ship, but when sub-woofers came out I noticed 2 way speaker systems with 10 inch woofers crossed to a tweeter went the way of the dinosaur and 6.5 inch woofers seemed to rule for the mid range fans. I've never heard the Orangutan, but will always wonder how it works to bring such raves....thanks...Mark Korda
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: