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I've got a pair of Hornshoppe Horns and a pair of Definitive Technologies BP2002 speakers. I had thought to set up a dual system with my CD player going into a B&K Reference 50 powered by an Outlaw 750 amp..using the 750 to bi-amp the DefTechs. Then the horns would use a Music Hall MMF-5 TT and a Hagerman Cornet preamp into whatever tube amp I could find. This way I would be able to have a digital SS system and an all analog tube system with single driver horns...best of both worlds.
OK..sorry about the lengthy setup... but here's what's happening.
I haven't yet found a tube amp and the other day just for kicks, I took the bi-amp off the DefTechs, and hooked up the horns in tandem with the DefTechs... and WOW. Something is working well. I didn't think it would sound good at all but it's AMAZING. It's not just me...my friend (who's a DICK about audio) was flabbergasted.
Anyone know what's going on here? Have there been other 4 speaker setups like this?
Follow Ups:
so it's going to be a pseudo-line source effect. That always impresses initially.
But, over time, when you start to really analyze the sound, you may find that it's sloppier than running a single speaker. You'll start to detect the smearing, the overlay of speakers, the messiness of it. Sure, the dynamics are "wow" now, and it likely has this gargantuan sound stage. But, there is a price to be paid for it, among them cleanness, especially of the center image.
It's very possible the bass from the DT's is drowning out much of the weaknesses inherent in the speakers being used in parallel. I certainly would recommend moving to a better speaker rather than a miss-mash of speakers conjoined. :)
The greatest impediment to advancing an audiophile system is the audiophile.
Perhaps. And I am indeed looking to replace everything with a nice used pair of B&W 801 speakers which as I said in another post, make all this a moot point.
But for now, I'm enjoying the sound!
I hate to be negative but I suspect you like the comb filtering caused by the interference affects of two speakers interacting with each other. But, honestly, if it makes music sound better for you, keep using it.
I might suggest unhooking one set and see if you still like it. Comparisons going back to the starting point are often illuminating, sometimes more so than the change from the starting point to the change. In your case try it twice since you have two sets of speakers. Be careful about matching volume in any comparisons.
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You are correct. Your picture is the way to do it. I have always been familiar with the Pipedreams and Scaena speakers and they do it correctly and sound superb. BUT that's not the set up being described.
Even the famous double Advents didn't work because of interference affects. I was involved in comparing them with old IMF speakers and they didn't compare for me. And, in fact, I preferred single to double Advents. They were more focused and cleaner sounding.
The bass from the older definitive technologies speakers was utter crap when playing music. Movies, ok. I am surprised that sounds like anything remotely good....
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
First, it's more than OK for movies...its epic. But I will concede that it can sound bloated when listening to music. That's why I use a meter to set the levels. But that's not enough with amps this old. One of the speakers, the right one, has an issue with the sub... it goes from 0 to 100. So I don't even use it. I will eventually fix it, or rather, get DefTech to fix it.
Everyone may be right about the comb filtering and all the other reasons I'm enjoying the sound, but I wish I could invite everyone to sit and listen and then tell me why this big soundstage that allows me to pick out individual instruments around a singer that's rock solid in the middle is not "right".
I'm not saying I'm right...I may be wrong! My "ear palate" is as inexperienced as that of a guy that's never tasted great wine. So maybe I'm getting all excited about 2 buck Chuck because I've never had Château d'Yquem.
If it sounds good to you, homes, go with it!
-RW-
I don't GAS...(love that acronym) I am just seriously curious as to why it's working. I should take pictures.
If you like it, go with it for now. Nothing wrong with that, To be honest, I thought the BP 2000s were very good initially because of the wow factor. Then I went to an audio show and heard what a kick drum "should" sound like and the illusion was over for me. They were gone in less than two weeks after I got home.
Experience will be your best guide in this endeavor. Listen to as many good systems as you can and you will form a benchmark for good sound.
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
These are the smaller BP2002 (unless you speaking in general of the line) which are IMO better for music than the monster BP2000s were. The 2000 series had a full D'apollito (did I spell that right?) array where the 2002 only has the top midrange and the tweeter under it. I thought they did a better job with music and a great job with movies.
DefTech has long been vilified by audiophiles, hated only a little less than Bose, and I will concede that when compared to a nice pair of B&Ws, for example, it's no contest but I do think they are slammed a little more than they deserve.
I'm thinking I'm enjoying a sort of hybrid d'apollito construct with the bass from the one good DefTech filling in what the horns can't reproduce and the full range horn driver sort of filling in for the missing driver that a BP2000 would have had.
I'm searching for a nice used pair of B&W 801 which should make this experiment a moot point anyway. I've lusted after those bad boys since I was a wee lad. :)
In the meantime, I hope to get some other ears in here to listen and I will post their impressions as well. Maybe it's just one of those dumb luck things!
I'm not familiar with your horns but most are highly efficient and I would have thought them to drown out the Def Tech.
I suspect with both pair playing you are getting an increase in a certain desirable frequency.
I had tried this before with other speakers... Minimus 7s, Pioneers, and a bunch of computer speakers, but it always sounded terrible with the soundstage bouncing all over the place or no imaging at all or "negative imaging" where the soundstage seemed to be on the sides insted of the middle.
But this...pinpoint imaging on a bigger soundstage with instruments the singer bang in the middle and the other instruments all around... it shouldn't work! But it is! (apologies to my punctuation teacher)
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