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In Reply to: RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? posted by RGA on August 07, 2014 at 10:36:32
And you recommended used speakers 2-1/2 to 13 times more than his budget?
We all have our preferences, but it doesn't have to be all Audio Note all the time.
........I was a vegetarian for 15 minutes... until the main course.
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There aren't many sealed box speakers and the best one - IMO that sounds better than the ATC 19 is a second hand AN K which can be had for $1,000.Indeed, before coming back to Canada for vacation I saw a used K/D for $1k US.
Unlike virtually every other sealed box design - the AN K has a gentle impedance so he can actually buy and successfully use a 5-10 watt SET amplifer and get better than 40hz in room response.
Most acoustic suspensions have no bass depth unless they're gigantic and most of them are power pigs requiring high power (generally inferior high negative feedback SS amplifiers). While there are some "good sounding" high power no feedback amplifiers - they tend to cost $8,000+ from the likes of a Pass Labs. So while you may save a touch on the speakers you don't in the amplifiers needed.
The K sounds about as good as loudspeakers sound that are this size. And while some of them are 13 times the price - that is just a different version of the same thing. You can upgrade the $1k model at a later time if desired. Few other companies offer such upgrade schemes.
If I heard a better sealed box design I'd happily recommend it over the AN K. NHT IMO certainly isn't in my opinion. ATC isn't nearly as friendly to amplifiers and IMO sounds more like loudspeakers and less "real" than the K.
PS: This is a suggestion - most people are familiar with AN E and AN J which are ported loudspeakers. I also owned the AN K myself for a time and am considering them again. The OP may not know about the Sealed Box under the radar gem that I consider to be quite far and away the best $3k speaker on the market (that I have heard). And if you can get one for around $1k from an older series with less pretty cabinetry then it's one to look out for.
I'll be happy to audition some sealed box designs if you provide me a list of them - There just ain't tons out there. And the list is even smaller if you actually want amplifier options or reasonable sensitivity.
Edits: 08/09/14
Was the used K/D for $1k US at the Victoria shop? I would go for a listen if they were...
Religion is the world's oldest profession
Hong Kong.
well, for now, amplification isn't really an issue. i have a nice sounding panasonic SA-XR 100wpc class D receiver that has tons of speed and detail. it can sound a little lean with highly resolving aluminum domes, but not at all harsh.
it would be hard to audition a used pair of audionotes, and my previous experience buying used gear is that more often than not, it's buying someone else's problem.
i never would have imagined audionote could be had for "real world" prices considering they make $100,000 ongaku tube amps.
if i were to buy used, i'd consider boston or vandersteen 3 ways or possibly infinity if it uses rubber surrounds, especially the modulus minis i've never seen used
If it's ported, it's distorted.
Plenty of companies make expensive and entry level lines - you can buy $4000 Sony Headphones and probably $20 ones too.
AN has speakers for $700. But specifically sealed the K is the only one.
Certainly the K will be tougher to find and if you don't like used so be it. Although speakers are generally safe buys second hand provided you can hear them first.
I'd probably lean with the ATC for more visceral sensation over Vandersteen but that's why there are plenty of options out there.
I have had but one bad experience buying used speakers so far, and I've bought several pairs over the last decade or so. In that single disappointing instance, the ebay seller was quick to arrange for return shipping and the refund of all of my money.
Finding a seller with a fairly long history of positive feedback is important as they are most careful to preserve their good reputation. Avoiding most pawn shop gear and inspecting Craigslist stuff before buying are usually smart things to do.
Given your budgetary considerations, I think that you'd be doing yourself more harm than good by avoiding all used gear. Gently used, well-cared for gear normally sells for 1/2 to 2/3 of original cost but in some cases nice stuff can be found for less.
Just my two cents! Good luck in your quest to find the right pair of speakers.
...used speakers are one of the safer bets. No moving parts and very little to wear out, especially if they are only a few years old. Most quality speakers will last a couple of decades, so purchasing used for less than 50 cents on the dollar would seem to be a prudent move. YMMV, of course....
-RW-
if it isn't abused, sure, used gear can be a value, but i've bought a $1,000 emax sampler with 1/2 of an owners manual i didn't know i needed a keyboard to test once on consignment that had a loud hard drive and was probably dropped that i got stuck with once along with a $1,000 tascam 8 track reel to reel that had busted meters and i think audio problems with one channel that i also got stuck with. (eff you forever rogue music you SOBs!!!)if i bought anything used, it would be something that i'm able to check out in person such as at an audio store. i don't like the sound of having to pay return shipping on something unacceptable.
i listened to a lot of seriously overpriced vintage gear at one shop that specialized in it and so many of the speakers had spitty sounding treble that i wonder if they all didn't have faulty capacitors. i was really annoyed to see the EXACT same technics turntable i'd bought with an audio technica LINE CONTACT cartridge for $80 around 1985 being sold for $159!
if i could find a good deal on anything that still sounds good, sure, i'd buy it. i just don't like the idea of gambling.
ebay sucks too! i bought a CD of pump up the volume that i never received and both ebay and paypal kept playing pass the buck on me until my time window closed even though the seller who originally had 100%+ stuck it to their last 8 customers. i'm not enamored with ebay anymore and haven't bought anything there in years, but i HAVE sold a ton of mint condition CDs and DVDs and still have 100% myself.
If it's ported, it's distorted.
Edits: 08/09/14
You are a hard one to please. Of course you'd drink champagne on a beer budget if you could. Most people would - if they could.I'm not passing judgement, I'm just saying that you might be wise to save up your pennies for a while...
Edits: 08/09/14
right now, i'm just researching and gear lusting. what's left of my system is in another state right now.
i don't think i'm tough to please, it's just no one seems to want to make sealed minis with BOTH great drivers and cabinets. NHT has great cabs, but superzeros are low resolution while classic 3s have aluminum driver resonances. i hate ALL forms of resonance... box colorations, driver colorations, port boom and horn shriek etc.
the 3 other sealed/port pluggable speakers i've owned all had sperior drivers to my superzeros, especially my energy RC-10s, but they all had skimpy boxes.
it reads to me like a "pick your distortion" compromise as so few makers are making the $500 minis they should and the ones that do tend to want at least 3x that amount.
i think when i HAVE saved up to rebuild my system, i'll just make my own minis with the best components i can afford, braced 3/4" minimum cabinets and even radius the front baffles to reduce diffraction.
crap... if i had the money, i'd design my own line of high value nothing but sealed box speakers starting with 5 1/4" 2 ways.
If it's ported, it's distorted.
Are you talking about mental distortion or audible distortion?
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