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In Reply to: RE: so far, ATC SCM 7 or 11 look best too me, except $$$$ posted by budget minded on August 07, 2014 at 15:31:07
I am not sure if the Role Audio minis use 1/2" MDF but, even if they did, that fact alone would not necessarily discourage me. How the cabinet is constructed (braced internally, etc...) can make the difference between a successful design and one that is not. The totality of the design is what counts, not just individual aspects or materials.That said, you are probably not going to find the perfect minimonitor for "under $1000" - maybe not even for three times that much!
Edits: 08/07/14 08/07/14Follow Ups:
there has to be better than what i've owned so far though. NHT makes great resonance free cabinets well under $1,000, but superzeros lack resolution and classic 3s have aluminum resonance issues, so i'm not a fan of their drivers while mission, celestion and especially energy had great drivers, but lousy cabinets.
if i was a conspiracy theorist, i'd say there's a conspiracy to keep anyone from making a truly reference pair of monitors that's quite possible under $1,000. it would have only cost energy maybe another $50, if that, to make beefier cabinets for their RC-10s which had AWESOME drivers. if i still had them, i thought about bonding 3/4" MDF with front baffle radiusing to the top bottom and sides at least. the sides of those speakers sound almost like plastic boombox speakers when you rap them.
superzeros are still under $300 i think. NHT could EASILY just upgrade the tweeters in those for under $100 and make speakers that have real resolution.
if i had the money, i'd start my own speaker line based around the best bang for buck possible, probably adopting the newer aluminum cabinets tech and use premium drivers and components with lower profit margins than the big guys.
sonnance is able to make 6 1/2" 2 ways with 1" thick cabinets! it doesn't cost $500 to upgrade something like that with premium drivers unless you're using seas excel or something.
If it's ported, it's distorted.
Well, there you go! I used to own Superzeros and I thought they were fantastic speakers within their frequency range.
They're were not as cheap as I had hoped they'd be, though. I needed to buy 28" tall speaker stands and two good subwoofers. Then, I installed the North Creek crossover upgrade kit. After all was said and done, the total price for me ended up being way over $1000 per pair...
And that's why someone in the market for a good pair of minimonitors might as well plan on spending at least $1500 - $2000.
Absolute Zero? A killer with a decent sub.
i only wish NHT would at least upgrade the tweeters on superzeros. something CHEAP like dayton's (formerly MB quart) titanium dome would really add speed, extension and transparency to the system, but a nice premium woofer wouldn't hurt either.
i had high hopes that the energy RC-10s i got an amazing deal ($220 i think) on closeout would have been just what i'm looking for. but with their ports plugged, there was always enough box resonance that it detracted greatly from my enjoyment of the music even if both the woofer and tweeter walked all of zero drivers from bass extension through treble air.
i just didn't think that speakers originally priced at $570 would ever use such flimsy cabinets when i bought them. at one point, i thought about having new boxes built to put everything in, but it's got to be hard to rout for a square framed woofer. i loved the energy drivers so much.
If it's ported, it's distorted.
NHT has made improvements depending on how old yours are, as per the "new Superzero 2.1" so they say
No mere update, the SuperZero 2.1 makes some subtle improvements to the original Super Zero and SuperZero 2.0 designs. Specifically, we added a 2nd order crossover, effectively blocking more of the bass that tries to sneak into the tweeter, and a newly revised woofer. These small changes significantly lower distortion, improving power handling, and makes the lil’ bugger sound even better than the original
Religion is the world's oldest profession
I have the Absolute Zero and B-10d sub combo. I thought the Absolute Zero was the real upgrade to the NHT mini line? They are incredible set up right. Better than either of the Supers IMO. They are never discussed much but they are incredible speakers. A sub is still really a must.
Hmmm, given NHT's description of them I am going to have to add them to my list!The Classic Absolute Zero is NHT's premium version of the original 1992 NHT SuperZero mini-monitor. In this latest version, we've managed to extend the bass response and improve the horizontal dispersion while maintaining the open and natural midrange for which all NHT models are known
And as per this thread
The Classic Absolute Zero, like most NHT speakers, is an acoustic suspension design (not ported or vented)
Religion is the world's oldest profession
Edits: 08/10/14
If I remember correctly, when Ken Kantor designed the original Superzero one of his goals was the deliberate limitation of bass response. By deliberately limiting bass response, he hoped to free the "woofer" of the Superzero from the reproduction of bass frequencies. That way, the small midrange/upper bass driver could be dedicated to the ultra-clean reproduction of midrange/upper bass frequencies alone. The need for dedicated subwoofers was thought of a positive thing, in other words...It is therefore possible that some of the midrange clarity, one of the hallmarks of the Superzero, has been lost to some degree in the "improved" Absolute Zero design. I have not compared the two speakers so I cannot say for sure, of course.
Making "improvements" sometimes involves making sacrifices, too.
Edits: 08/10/14 08/10/14
i had no issues with the bass (extremely limited as it is) through the entire midrange, but above 5,000Hz or so, superzero tweeters are just too low resolution and sluggish. a good aluminum or titanium dome will runn circles around superzero heavy cloth treated domes. even mission and celestion soft domes are better.
if NHT wants to sell me superzeros ever again, they'll have to get rid of those tweeters. i'd buy a pair with the original woofers and crossovers if they only swapped them for dayton's (MB quart) titanium tweeters which are only $16 each retail and have a ton more speed and resolution with a slightly more forgiving sound than aluminum. a planar or folded ribbon would be even better and worth another $100 to me
If it's ported, it's distorted.
The Superzeros are just a bit too bass shy, IMO. Flat bass response barely makes it to the 100 hz. mark. Back in the vinyl days bass was stereophonic down to 100 hz. or so, but on modern recordings bass is stereophonic down to about 80 hz. This means that if you want deep bass response that is both flat and fully stereophonic when using a pair of Superzeros, you really need dual subwoofers. You'll also want to keep each subwoofer very close to it's Superzero partner, for the best stereo separation and bass integration.Standmount minimonitors are usually designed to stay fairly flat down to 80 hz. nowadays. You might pay more, initially, for gutsier monitors but you can save money in the end by only having to buy one subwoofer. Two subwoofers are great but it's nice when you don't really NEED to buy two of them.
Edits: 08/08/14
rolloff doesn't really bother me, especially in an apartment living situation. the bass that is there in superzeros is super fast and clear. i don't need to feel bass, just hear it clearly. a larger cabinet would help with the bass output, or 5 1/4" woofers would help a lot too.
my problem with superzeros was only their sluggish detail obscuring tweeters that are still unresolving even with extra clinical sounding panasonic class D.
i don't plan on ever getting another pair until they upgrade the tweeters. if someone else made an equivalent speaker with drivers as good as my energy RC-10s, i'd get those.
i have no problem with bass. if i need it, i have a pair of 12" sealed 2 ways i built with dayton titanium tweeters, a paradigm crossover and a 500w class D plate amp. bass extension just isn't a priority with me. to me, an 8" sealed woofer is ideal.
BTW. i was amazed at just how hifi and detailed the 12" "party speakers" i built sound. they have faster midrange than i thought possible, but because the tweeters are a few dB less efficient, they sound forward in the mids, but very coherent from the mids on down with the slightest "stutter" coloration in the vocal range at low listening levels. at high volumes though, they stomp DJ speakers in every way.
If it's ported, it's distorted.
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