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In Reply to: RE: hi-rez acoustic suspension minimonitors? posted by budget minded on August 05, 2014 at 15:41:54
Second hand pair of Audio Note K/Spe or K/Lx.
They go for $2700 to $13,000 New depending on the version.
For sealed the ATC would be a second choice if you can't get a K.
The bonus with the K is that is one of the only easy to drive sealed designs which allows for the use of 5 watt SET amplifiers. 6 ohm 5 ohm min. Dead easy to drive.
I'd like to see more sealed but it isn't true that ports are highly distorted. Not anymore anyway. More difficult to set up and position but that's because they tend to put out a LOT more bass and bass causes more room problems. The Audio Note J and E are ported and have 0.2% THD at 95dB from 20-80hz. And never rise above 0.6% THD at any frequency above that. Some find them lean as a result. They'be gotten used to the fuzz perhaps.
ATC I have not seen actual distortion measurements on but I expect them to be very low as well. I find them to sound more hifi than the K. The K has been around over 30 years so it's worth adding to the audition list.
Follow Ups:
And you recommended used speakers 2-1/2 to 13 times more than his budget?
We all have our preferences, but it doesn't have to be all Audio Note all the time.
........I was a vegetarian for 15 minutes... until the main course.
There aren't many sealed box speakers and the best one - IMO that sounds better than the ATC 19 is a second hand AN K which can be had for $1,000.Indeed, before coming back to Canada for vacation I saw a used K/D for $1k US.
Unlike virtually every other sealed box design - the AN K has a gentle impedance so he can actually buy and successfully use a 5-10 watt SET amplifer and get better than 40hz in room response.
Most acoustic suspensions have no bass depth unless they're gigantic and most of them are power pigs requiring high power (generally inferior high negative feedback SS amplifiers). While there are some "good sounding" high power no feedback amplifiers - they tend to cost $8,000+ from the likes of a Pass Labs. So while you may save a touch on the speakers you don't in the amplifiers needed.
The K sounds about as good as loudspeakers sound that are this size. And while some of them are 13 times the price - that is just a different version of the same thing. You can upgrade the $1k model at a later time if desired. Few other companies offer such upgrade schemes.
If I heard a better sealed box design I'd happily recommend it over the AN K. NHT IMO certainly isn't in my opinion. ATC isn't nearly as friendly to amplifiers and IMO sounds more like loudspeakers and less "real" than the K.
PS: This is a suggestion - most people are familiar with AN E and AN J which are ported loudspeakers. I also owned the AN K myself for a time and am considering them again. The OP may not know about the Sealed Box under the radar gem that I consider to be quite far and away the best $3k speaker on the market (that I have heard). And if you can get one for around $1k from an older series with less pretty cabinetry then it's one to look out for.
I'll be happy to audition some sealed box designs if you provide me a list of them - There just ain't tons out there. And the list is even smaller if you actually want amplifier options or reasonable sensitivity.
Edits: 08/09/14
Was the used K/D for $1k US at the Victoria shop? I would go for a listen if they were...
Religion is the world's oldest profession
Hong Kong.
well, for now, amplification isn't really an issue. i have a nice sounding panasonic SA-XR 100wpc class D receiver that has tons of speed and detail. it can sound a little lean with highly resolving aluminum domes, but not at all harsh.
it would be hard to audition a used pair of audionotes, and my previous experience buying used gear is that more often than not, it's buying someone else's problem.
i never would have imagined audionote could be had for "real world" prices considering they make $100,000 ongaku tube amps.
if i were to buy used, i'd consider boston or vandersteen 3 ways or possibly infinity if it uses rubber surrounds, especially the modulus minis i've never seen used
If it's ported, it's distorted.
Plenty of companies make expensive and entry level lines - you can buy $4000 Sony Headphones and probably $20 ones too.
AN has speakers for $700. But specifically sealed the K is the only one.
Certainly the K will be tougher to find and if you don't like used so be it. Although speakers are generally safe buys second hand provided you can hear them first.
I'd probably lean with the ATC for more visceral sensation over Vandersteen but that's why there are plenty of options out there.
I have had but one bad experience buying used speakers so far, and I've bought several pairs over the last decade or so. In that single disappointing instance, the ebay seller was quick to arrange for return shipping and the refund of all of my money.
Finding a seller with a fairly long history of positive feedback is important as they are most careful to preserve their good reputation. Avoiding most pawn shop gear and inspecting Craigslist stuff before buying are usually smart things to do.
Given your budgetary considerations, I think that you'd be doing yourself more harm than good by avoiding all used gear. Gently used, well-cared for gear normally sells for 1/2 to 2/3 of original cost but in some cases nice stuff can be found for less.
Just my two cents! Good luck in your quest to find the right pair of speakers.
...used speakers are one of the safer bets. No moving parts and very little to wear out, especially if they are only a few years old. Most quality speakers will last a couple of decades, so purchasing used for less than 50 cents on the dollar would seem to be a prudent move. YMMV, of course....
-RW-
if it isn't abused, sure, used gear can be a value, but i've bought a $1,000 emax sampler with 1/2 of an owners manual i didn't know i needed a keyboard to test once on consignment that had a loud hard drive and was probably dropped that i got stuck with once along with a $1,000 tascam 8 track reel to reel that had busted meters and i think audio problems with one channel that i also got stuck with. (eff you forever rogue music you SOBs!!!)if i bought anything used, it would be something that i'm able to check out in person such as at an audio store. i don't like the sound of having to pay return shipping on something unacceptable.
i listened to a lot of seriously overpriced vintage gear at one shop that specialized in it and so many of the speakers had spitty sounding treble that i wonder if they all didn't have faulty capacitors. i was really annoyed to see the EXACT same technics turntable i'd bought with an audio technica LINE CONTACT cartridge for $80 around 1985 being sold for $159!
if i could find a good deal on anything that still sounds good, sure, i'd buy it. i just don't like the idea of gambling.
ebay sucks too! i bought a CD of pump up the volume that i never received and both ebay and paypal kept playing pass the buck on me until my time window closed even though the seller who originally had 100%+ stuck it to their last 8 customers. i'm not enamored with ebay anymore and haven't bought anything there in years, but i HAVE sold a ton of mint condition CDs and DVDs and still have 100% myself.
If it's ported, it's distorted.
Edits: 08/09/14
You are a hard one to please. Of course you'd drink champagne on a beer budget if you could. Most people would - if they could.I'm not passing judgement, I'm just saying that you might be wise to save up your pennies for a while...
Edits: 08/09/14
right now, i'm just researching and gear lusting. what's left of my system is in another state right now.
i don't think i'm tough to please, it's just no one seems to want to make sealed minis with BOTH great drivers and cabinets. NHT has great cabs, but superzeros are low resolution while classic 3s have aluminum driver resonances. i hate ALL forms of resonance... box colorations, driver colorations, port boom and horn shriek etc.
the 3 other sealed/port pluggable speakers i've owned all had sperior drivers to my superzeros, especially my energy RC-10s, but they all had skimpy boxes.
it reads to me like a "pick your distortion" compromise as so few makers are making the $500 minis they should and the ones that do tend to want at least 3x that amount.
i think when i HAVE saved up to rebuild my system, i'll just make my own minis with the best components i can afford, braced 3/4" minimum cabinets and even radius the front baffles to reduce diffraction.
crap... if i had the money, i'd design my own line of high value nothing but sealed box speakers starting with 5 1/4" 2 ways.
If it's ported, it's distorted.
Are you talking about mental distortion or audible distortion?
Budget Minded,
You don't have to buy Audio Note K's but you really should hear them. They are some Audio Note fans' favorite AN speaker.
Like you I want to hear the Spx version. I think it largely depends on the room and the materials of the room. The AN's sound a lot better in HK IMO because of the concrete walls.
I am somewhat tempted to go with a K/Spe again but I kind of want the fuller range bass of the E and the superb start stop pin drop speed of the Alnico drivers. Maybe AN will do an Alnico AN K
if audionote can make $100,000 SET amps, i wonder if their gear is overpriced, but i'd definitely like to hear a pair of K speakers to see what they sound like. i'd wonder about imaging with them though as they have such huge front baffles with square edges. that's one of the reasons i prefer minimonitors... less diffraction issues
If it's ported, it's distorted.
Well they also don;t present the holes in the stage slim line speakers exhibit or the lack of driver integration so they sound closer to a single driver than virtually any other 2 way design. Imaging is less precise but the scale and stage is more encompassing to the point where they have been compared favourably to MBL in the ability to fill the room (Peter Bruninger of TAS and Stereophile noted this). Further you get more bottom end than mini-monitors.
Stuff like the Ongaku and their other pricey stuff it should be noted are made in very small numbers using exotic parts materials - they are made to order for rich people. Most of those pricey designs have cheaper options of the same design. The AN E comes in something like 20 versions from ~$3k to $210,000. Just ignore the pricey ones and look at the stuff you can afford. Remember Vandersteen also has a $50,000 speaker.
Regardless I would not buy a speaker that you can't audition first.
given the chance, yes, i do try to audition speakers, but because sealed boxes are so rare, especially at the entry level where they belong, sometimes one has to gamble as i did on the energy RC-10s i would have loved if only they had better boxes. i'm really at the point now where i only read reviews for entertainment purposes after raves for both the RC-10s and my mission M71s that both had unnacceptable levels of box colorations.
If it's ported, it's distorted.
But ported speakers and I use one that is superb in the bass control are inferior to closed boxes because of their faster roll off. The faster the bass roll off the longer the overhang and there is no way a good ported speaker will match a good closed box in this respect. It's those darn laws of physics again.
...there is no way a good ported speaker will match a good closed box in this respect.
Carl Marchisotto might debate that notion with you. :)
I doubt he'd debate that(transient response) with me. It's simple physics and Carl is a way better designer than that. There are all sorts of compromises in woofer design and that's part of the reason reflex is chosen so often but not for best transient response.
Another reason for ported boxes is that the best woofer drivers are designed for ported boxes and not for closed boxes. You would need custom drivers for closed boxes. That's costly unless you're making a lot of speakers or can sell enough to charge enough, for example, Magico, who will not design a ported box.
By the way if the ported box is designed for transient response it can be quite good. The Rockports are excellent. My SEAS Froy 3 is very good. It just can't ultimately be as good at transients as closed boxes.
He might simply provide his current speaker's overall performance as the counterpoint to the theory. :)
He wouldn't and why do you keep arguing something you seem to know nothing about. Just because his speakers have good bass does not mean that a closed box can have better controlled bass.
I have 18 inch woofers designed to be closed or ported. They have excellent bass ported. They have better transients closed box. And the designer, who prefers the ported set up(he's a professional and also a good friend) agrees with me that the transients are better closed. But the woofer sounds dry that way and he likes the affect added by the slightly warmer bass. But he knows it's not as accurate.
why do you keep arguing something you seem to know nothing about.
Too funny! Yeah, those Grand Reference speakers really are pretty crappy sounding, right? You have heard them, right?
But he knows it's not as accurate.
I guess that's why people spend $200k on them. :)
what does that have to do with the subject, the transient ability of closed versus ported box? Ported can be very good. But all things equal it CAN NOT be as transient perfect as a closed box. You can practice any audio religion you want but it doesn't change reality. Believe what you want. I won't try to confuse you with the truth any more.
your crusade against ported speakers. I've heard some excellent ones. And all things aren't equal across makes.
As for me I prefer boxless speakers altogether.
You don't read. I'm not against ported speakers. I admire some. I own and use them. I've written that in my replies to you. It's just that a good closed box has less bass overhang than a god ported box and I'm tired of audio silliness where opinion is substituted for things that are actually known based on I heard it and I liked it and that means it's the best. It's very strange. Audiophiles as a group are very smart people and very well educated and they seem to throw all this away when they fall in love.
i've gotten into arguments so many times with ported speaker apologists that i don't even bother. no matter how many references i bring, including woofer manufacturer's comments. port fans just don't want to hear that ported speakers are DESIGNED to resonate and add harmonics that aren't part of the original sound just like blowing across the opening of a bottle and exciting IT's resonant modes. they don't want to hear that there's a time lag from woofer motion to the port's output. they don't want to hear that the delay creates phase issues. they don't want to hear that air springs are better at controlling woofer motion or that they improve transient speed.it's purely an emotional reaction. ported fans hate rolled off bass and refuse to accept that the euphonic bass boost ports give to a signal is really a form of distortion.
i knew this BY EAR before i started my education in audio. big ported speakers sound slower and muddier in the bass, to annoyingly boomy or can even have port noise. the first time i heard 4 1/2" infinity woofers snapping hard on kick drums, i flipped out. it was the first time i'd heard low distortion transients despite listening to a bunch of shop speakers up to klipsch lascalas. i had to find out WHY my friend's tiny little $120 infinity speakers sounded so much better, to MY EARS, than the floor standers that never really impressed me.
what i learned was smaller speakers can move faster because they have less mass and the air spring adds control to the woofer and cancels the backwaves out better if not 100% because of potential box resonances and standing waves etc.
just try to argue scientific facts though with someone who feels personally offended that you DARE disparage the sound they like. all you'll do is get 3-4 really whizzed off people saying things about your momma eventually.
i know what i like and i'm not budging from it. if i don't get an acoustic suspension/infinite baffle/sealed set of speakers, i'll get planars or ribbons for even more transient speed and freedom from box resonances. getting any ported speaker is autamatically a step in the wrong direction i'm never making.
i'd post the science behind it to back you up, but it will literally go in one ear and out the other with anyone who just doesn't want to hear it.
there ARE plenty of ported speakers that do sound pretty good, but they just can't thump like a sealed woofer can. i can clearly hear the distortion in ported speakers with their dulled transients, added harmonics and overhang. bigger isn't better to me... faster and tighter is. i even prefer a little bit of rolloff too.
i guess, to port fans, bass rolloff is an unforgiveable form of distortion to the frequency response. that's about the only concession to acoustic suspension distortion that could ever be claimed and be true compared to bass reflex.
BTW... if you REALLY want tight bass at the expensive of even lower sensitivity, nothing beats an isobaric "two woofers acting as one" system whether it's in push-pull or push-push mode though i seem to remember that push-pull has the benefit of cancelling some distortion too.
[img]i've gotten into arguments so many times with ported speaker apologists that i don't even bother. no matter how many references i bring, including woofer manufacturer's comments. port fans just don't want to hear that ported speakers are DESIGNED to resonate and add harmonics that aren't part of the original sound just like blowing across the opening of a bottle and exciting IT's resonant modes. they don't want to hear that there's a time lag from woofer motion to the port's output. they don't want to hear that the delay creates phase issues. they don't want to hear that air springs are better at controlling woofer motion or that they improve transient speed.it's purely an emotional reaction. ported fans hate rolled off bass and refuse to accept that the euphonic bass boost ports give to a signal is really a form of distortion.
i knew this BY EAR before i started my education in audio. big ported speakers sound slower and muddier in the bass, to annoyingly boomy or can even have port noise. the first time i heard 4 1/2" infinity woofers snapping hard on kick drums, i flipped out. it was the first time i'd heard low distortion transients despite listening to a bunch of shop speakers up to klipsch lascalas. i had to find out WHY my friend's tiny little $120 infinity speakers sounded so much better, to MY EARS, than the floor standers that never really impressed me.
what i learned was smaller speakers can move faster because they have less mass and the air spring adds control to the woofer and cancels the backwaves out better if not 100% because of potential box resonances and standing waves etc.
just try to argue scientific facts though with someone who feels personally offended that you DARE disparage the sound they like. all you'll do is get 3-4 really whizzed off people saying things about your momma eventually.
i know what i like and i'm not budging from it. if i don't get an acoustic suspension/infinite baffle/sealed set of speakers, i'll get planars or ribbons for even more transient speed and freedom from box resonances. getting any ported speaker is autamatically a step in the wrong direction i'm never making.
i'd post the science behind it to back you up, but it will literally go in one ear and out the other with anyone who just doesn't want to hear it.
there ARE plenty of ported speakers that do sound pretty good, but they just can't thump like a sealed woofer can. i can clearly hear the distortion in ported speakers with their dulled transients, added harmonics and overhang. bigger isn't better to me... faster and tighter is. i even prefer a little bit of rolloff too.
i guess, to port fans, bass rolloff is an unforgiveable form of distortion to the frequency response. that's about the only concession to acoustic suspension distortion that could ever be claimed and be true compared to bass reflex.
BTW... if you REALLY want tight bass at the expensive of even lower sensitivity, nothing beats an isobaric "two woofers acting as one" system whether it's in push-pull or push-push mode though i seem to remember that push-pull has the benefit of cancelling some distortion too.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Linn_Isobarik_DMS_loudspeaker_enclosure.png/210px-Linn_Isobarik_DMS_loudspeaker_enclosure.png
If it's ported, it's distorted.
Edits: 08/08/14 08/08/14 08/08/14 08/08/14 08/08/14 08/08/14 08/08/14
I know you can only lead a horse to water. That would have been my last post but to reply to you.
By the way I own isobaric speakers and they work the same as single drivers except they are 3 DB down in efficiency in parallel(the usual) and the rear box is 1/2 the size of the same characteristics of the box with a single driver. They don't go deeper. But if used facing each other even harmonics do cancel as you said. There is a potential problem if you run them too high infrequency unless you roll off the rear driver because sound from the rear driver can come through the front one and it will be time delayed, of course, and make the sound less clear.
now what i read says just the opposite about isobaric speakers. the combined force of two drivers pushing the same signal, with half the internal volume for a tighter air spring to boot is supposed to add extra transient snap and speed at the expense of 3dB efficiency, but with twice the power handling.
as to ported speakers, i just have no interest in them at all. it's an inferior sounding technology and even in the very best designs, you'd still get tighter woofer control if you plug the ports.
to me, it's not much different than telling someone you hate mayo, and then someone trying to get you to eat a mayo smothered steak. "sure there's mayo on it, but it's steak!"
yes, i'm just as hard headed and set in my priorities as port fans are, but i like to think i'm more of a realist. i'm happy to trade extension off for several forms of distortion. lack of LF extension and lower efficiency are the only real drawbacks for using sealed speakers. i can live with those issues, especially with the addition of room tuning EQ.
If it's ported, it's distorted.
An isobaric driver combo has the same Q and resonant frequency as a single driver but the Vas is 1/2 of a single. That's why the lower volume but the other two say the extension and quality(damping) will be the same for a 1/2 size box.
And a good ported box can sound better than an OK closed box. If the Q of a closed box is high(like the BBC LS3/5a) the bass quality is not very good.
But if I were a zillionaire and could afford to custom make my own drivers I would ultimately use a closed box and probably do multi amps and electronic crossovers so the amps don't have to drive through a crossover which will also degrade the sound.
yes... all that along with state of the art cabinets... aluminum is gaining popularity and while you're at it with the triamping, why not add state of the art DACs and high resolution room correction?
sure, all that's fine, but a nice simple 2 way with decent cabinets, drivers and crossover components can get you most of the way to spanking multithousand dollar towers once you throw in a suitable sub.
me? i can get along just fine with nothing more than 5 1/2" of woofer.
If it's ported, it's distorted.
Or actually, a pair of Clues. The Clue seems to be an honest, no bullshit design but it requires very careful setup. Despite being "finicky", it might also provide you with something that other small speakers cannot (especially the ones with sealed boxes): Bass.The only way you are going to "get along just fine" using a tiny 5-1/2" woofer is with judicious use of boundary reinforcement. And... a port or two (sigh!). And possibly, as many subwoofers as you can fit in your listening space as well.
Try to listen to a pair of these, and don't forget to bring a blindfold with you. Forget about your neat little theories, you really need to try just *listening* from now on...
Edits: 08/28/14 08/28/14 08/28/14
i have no problems with bass roll off. accuracy is always far more important to me. that's why, despite their very limited resolution, i consider NHT superzeros to be the best speakers i've owned. their sins are of omission. my energy RC-10s blew them away from top to bottom for extension and resolution, but their boomy boxes drove me nuts, and like the missions, i hated the woolier sounding bass with their ports unplugged.
i have no use for box resonances, driver resonances (eg. aluminum & planar *ping*) or ported tuning resonances (i just hate ported speakers... they sound sloppy and slow to me, but do have more weight)
the first time i heard bass i liked, it was from 4 1/2" infinity minis. i revelled at the speed and clarity saying THAT'S what a kick drum REALLY sounds like.
i'm always getting into arguments with people over ports even when i present 100 sources that point out the many distortions they induce, even from DRIVER MANUFACTURERS. i had 6 1/2" JBL porrted 2 ways, and my superzeros stomped them for bass clarity.
If it's ported, it's distorted.
As a very long time owner of NHT Superzero's, I understand totally what you are saying. I still use them in a headphone setup similar to the pic of the gallo's below. The Gallo's are singularly unique - single driver, no crossover, solid steel ROUND enclosure which I would presume bests any wooden box - subwoofers of course.
I use the micro's as pictured (they are soooo small - Superzero's are gigantic in comparison) but about the only speaker I ever truly wonder about is the Strada's - compared to a bunch of boxes, I wouldn't think twice about pulling the trigger on them. Probably will one of these days. With the seemingly rediculous prices for stone cold wooden boxes it's a wonder the Gallo's aren't thrice the price. Powered superzero's look interesting too - so cheap!
Religion is the world's oldest profession
I am not sure if the Role Audio minis use 1/2" MDF but, even if they did, that fact alone would not necessarily discourage me. How the cabinet is constructed (braced internally, etc...) can make the difference between a successful design and one that is not. The totality of the design is what counts, not just individual aspects or materials.That said, you are probably not going to find the perfect minimonitor for "under $1000" - maybe not even for three times that much!
Edits: 08/07/14 08/07/14
there has to be better than what i've owned so far though. NHT makes great resonance free cabinets well under $1,000, but superzeros lack resolution and classic 3s have aluminum resonance issues, so i'm not a fan of their drivers while mission, celestion and especially energy had great drivers, but lousy cabinets.
if i was a conspiracy theorist, i'd say there's a conspiracy to keep anyone from making a truly reference pair of monitors that's quite possible under $1,000. it would have only cost energy maybe another $50, if that, to make beefier cabinets for their RC-10s which had AWESOME drivers. if i still had them, i thought about bonding 3/4" MDF with front baffle radiusing to the top bottom and sides at least. the sides of those speakers sound almost like plastic boombox speakers when you rap them.
superzeros are still under $300 i think. NHT could EASILY just upgrade the tweeters in those for under $100 and make speakers that have real resolution.
if i had the money, i'd start my own speaker line based around the best bang for buck possible, probably adopting the newer aluminum cabinets tech and use premium drivers and components with lower profit margins than the big guys.
sonnance is able to make 6 1/2" 2 ways with 1" thick cabinets! it doesn't cost $500 to upgrade something like that with premium drivers unless you're using seas excel or something.
If it's ported, it's distorted.
Well, there you go! I used to own Superzeros and I thought they were fantastic speakers within their frequency range.
They're were not as cheap as I had hoped they'd be, though. I needed to buy 28" tall speaker stands and two good subwoofers. Then, I installed the North Creek crossover upgrade kit. After all was said and done, the total price for me ended up being way over $1000 per pair...
And that's why someone in the market for a good pair of minimonitors might as well plan on spending at least $1500 - $2000.
Absolute Zero? A killer with a decent sub.
i only wish NHT would at least upgrade the tweeters on superzeros. something CHEAP like dayton's (formerly MB quart) titanium dome would really add speed, extension and transparency to the system, but a nice premium woofer wouldn't hurt either.
i had high hopes that the energy RC-10s i got an amazing deal ($220 i think) on closeout would have been just what i'm looking for. but with their ports plugged, there was always enough box resonance that it detracted greatly from my enjoyment of the music even if both the woofer and tweeter walked all of zero drivers from bass extension through treble air.
i just didn't think that speakers originally priced at $570 would ever use such flimsy cabinets when i bought them. at one point, i thought about having new boxes built to put everything in, but it's got to be hard to rout for a square framed woofer. i loved the energy drivers so much.
If it's ported, it's distorted.
NHT has made improvements depending on how old yours are, as per the "new Superzero 2.1" so they say
No mere update, the SuperZero 2.1 makes some subtle improvements to the original Super Zero and SuperZero 2.0 designs. Specifically, we added a 2nd order crossover, effectively blocking more of the bass that tries to sneak into the tweeter, and a newly revised woofer. These small changes significantly lower distortion, improving power handling, and makes the lil’ bugger sound even better than the original
Religion is the world's oldest profession
I have the Absolute Zero and B-10d sub combo. I thought the Absolute Zero was the real upgrade to the NHT mini line? They are incredible set up right. Better than either of the Supers IMO. They are never discussed much but they are incredible speakers. A sub is still really a must.
Hmmm, given NHT's description of them I am going to have to add them to my list!The Classic Absolute Zero is NHT's premium version of the original 1992 NHT SuperZero mini-monitor. In this latest version, we've managed to extend the bass response and improve the horizontal dispersion while maintaining the open and natural midrange for which all NHT models are known
And as per this thread
The Classic Absolute Zero, like most NHT speakers, is an acoustic suspension design (not ported or vented)
Religion is the world's oldest profession
Edits: 08/10/14
If I remember correctly, when Ken Kantor designed the original Superzero one of his goals was the deliberate limitation of bass response. By deliberately limiting bass response, he hoped to free the "woofer" of the Superzero from the reproduction of bass frequencies. That way, the small midrange/upper bass driver could be dedicated to the ultra-clean reproduction of midrange/upper bass frequencies alone. The need for dedicated subwoofers was thought of a positive thing, in other words...It is therefore possible that some of the midrange clarity, one of the hallmarks of the Superzero, has been lost to some degree in the "improved" Absolute Zero design. I have not compared the two speakers so I cannot say for sure, of course.
Making "improvements" sometimes involves making sacrifices, too.
Edits: 08/10/14 08/10/14
i had no issues with the bass (extremely limited as it is) through the entire midrange, but above 5,000Hz or so, superzero tweeters are just too low resolution and sluggish. a good aluminum or titanium dome will runn circles around superzero heavy cloth treated domes. even mission and celestion soft domes are better.
if NHT wants to sell me superzeros ever again, they'll have to get rid of those tweeters. i'd buy a pair with the original woofers and crossovers if they only swapped them for dayton's (MB quart) titanium tweeters which are only $16 each retail and have a ton more speed and resolution with a slightly more forgiving sound than aluminum. a planar or folded ribbon would be even better and worth another $100 to me
If it's ported, it's distorted.
The Superzeros are just a bit too bass shy, IMO. Flat bass response barely makes it to the 100 hz. mark. Back in the vinyl days bass was stereophonic down to 100 hz. or so, but on modern recordings bass is stereophonic down to about 80 hz. This means that if you want deep bass response that is both flat and fully stereophonic when using a pair of Superzeros, you really need dual subwoofers. You'll also want to keep each subwoofer very close to it's Superzero partner, for the best stereo separation and bass integration.Standmount minimonitors are usually designed to stay fairly flat down to 80 hz. nowadays. You might pay more, initially, for gutsier monitors but you can save money in the end by only having to buy one subwoofer. Two subwoofers are great but it's nice when you don't really NEED to buy two of them.
Edits: 08/08/14
rolloff doesn't really bother me, especially in an apartment living situation. the bass that is there in superzeros is super fast and clear. i don't need to feel bass, just hear it clearly. a larger cabinet would help with the bass output, or 5 1/4" woofers would help a lot too.
my problem with superzeros was only their sluggish detail obscuring tweeters that are still unresolving even with extra clinical sounding panasonic class D.
i don't plan on ever getting another pair until they upgrade the tweeters. if someone else made an equivalent speaker with drivers as good as my energy RC-10s, i'd get those.
i have no problem with bass. if i need it, i have a pair of 12" sealed 2 ways i built with dayton titanium tweeters, a paradigm crossover and a 500w class D plate amp. bass extension just isn't a priority with me. to me, an 8" sealed woofer is ideal.
BTW. i was amazed at just how hifi and detailed the 12" "party speakers" i built sound. they have faster midrange than i thought possible, but because the tweeters are a few dB less efficient, they sound forward in the mids, but very coherent from the mids on down with the slightest "stutter" coloration in the vocal range at low listening levels. at high volumes though, they stomp DJ speakers in every way.
If it's ported, it's distorted.
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