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Gang:
We know there are many ways to skin the cat... horns, single driver, horns, 2-way, 3-way, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th order, atypical variants like filler-driver, cauer-elliptic, arrays such as line arrays, MTM, WMTMW, planar, electrostatic...you get the idea. Lots of different approaches.
So after all your searching trial and error...
What did you land on, and what was it that ended your search?
Don't be shy - let us know the brand and model too.
I want to get out of my "box" and try different designs and would like your input so I know where to put my next small bundle of audio budget. I am heavily into DSP/Active approaches and want to try crossoverless or a passive design - no DSP - that can be used with analogue gear, for example.
Thanks in advance to all contributors! :)
Cheers,
Presto
Follow Ups:
If you want it to sound like the final mix, seems to me you need the home version of studio monitors. In the day we used JBL 4310, JBL 4311 or the Home versions of JBL 100, JBL century all the same 3-way monitor. As time went on studios got smaller, engineers more mobile. Home recording studios needed smaller, less expensive monitors and the Yamaha NS-10 two-way filled the roll for a decade. You can probably find home versions of those. Whatever sounds good to you.
~~~
Our lunacies have been indulged up till now..
Out of curiosity (to me), I'm going to list off the top of my head the speakers I've had over the years:
Fisher Studio Standard (came with receiver)
Bose 301 Series II
Bose 601 Series II
Baby Advents
Advent Laurette
Spica TC-60
Bose 901 Series VI
B&W DM 302
B&W CDM1SE
B&W Nautilus 805
Dunlavy SC-IV
Reference 3A De Capo i
JM Reynaud Trente
Bose 901 Series VI (again)
Acoustic Zen Adagio
Vandersteen 2CE Sigs
Cain & Cain Abby
Dunlavy SC-I
Advent Large
Merlin Master TSM
Magnepan MGIIIA
Right now I've got five pairs in my home (DALx2; IIIA; TC60; Merlin) and am seriously contemplating selling all except the Merlins. Well, and the TC-60 for sentimental reasons (and the busted tweeter).
I've enjoyed the journey quite a bit, and have enjoyed all of the speakers on the list, but the Merlins are just magical! I love soundstage, and they do that better than any speaker I've owned.
I sincerely feel that if more audiophiles had an opportunity to listen to a pair of Merlin speakers, they'd be far more popular than they currently are. A shame, really, because Bobby makes a fantastic speaker.
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)
Spendor S20. I let one pair get away...and spent years in search of another, and finally found another pair when I moved just outside NYC.I've had much, much more expensive speakers (Harbeth 7ES--2)...but somehow these just feel right.
***************
Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans.
John Lennon
Edits: 06/08/12
Harbeth Compact 7 ES3's. I went from some Custom Speakers built by a local guy in Portland to some Paradigm Monitor 11's (too large and forward in their presentation for my room), and even moved my Monitor Audio RS6's up into my listening room from their perch in the Surround sound system downstairs. Liked them, but was looking for a bit more....... Heard the Harbeth's and fell in love. Speaking of the one that I let get away; in the early 90's I gave to a friend who was in need my JBL L65 Jubals that were in mint condition (aside from needing new surrounds) when I purchased the custom built speakers. I've seen just the L65's tweeters going for north of $600 on Ebay!
IMHO, there was nothing like the Jubal at its price point for listening to loud Classic Rock! I was in the Navy in 1975 when I purchased them at the Navy Exchange in Subic Bay Philippines for $600 in 1975.
Hey P,
I ended mostly with the magnepan mmg.
Cheap and good just like me :)
60 day in home trial too.
Afterwards we discovered faith; it's all you need
Honestly, I keep improving the electronics and hearing more and more from the speakers. The speakers are just amazing.
the man knows what live music sounds like and is one of a handful of designers that can bring that experience to bear on his designs.I started off with the Alon I's which completely changed my mind on what was possible in the dynamic dipole application as these baby's when driven by high quality electronics/cabling in the appropriate sized room literally slayed all comers for impact, music realism and soundstaging although it must be said that the initial woofer Carl designed for the Alon I was the weak link having personally blown through two of them although the replacement driver solved the power handling problem but somewhow didn't match the originals bass definition prowess.
I then stepped up to the Alon Lotus SE mkII speakers and while this was a major leap in resolution proved that system electronics/cabling resolution plays a huge role in performance/musicality which I found out the hard way! It took almost a year to assemble a system that exploited the virtues of the Lotus but damn was it good when it was all said and done :-)
I have now aquired one of two pairs on the planet of Carl's Nola Viper 1AX speakers and good god these baby's speak the truth! With their AlNiCo motors on the latest Nola midrange/tweeter drivers, the custom SEAS Magnesium woofers and Carl's eloquent crossover design and listening in a properly treated near field room is almost sensory overload! Think of highly resolved headphone listening but with clean dynamics, a huge soundstage and bass impact to remind oneself of live music :-)
Enuf said...
~
Edits: 06/11/12
Harbeth Compact 7 ES3, driven my Luxman electronics. Tone, dynamics, musicality and beauty. Everything I've wanted in a system, and more modest in cost and requirements than any number of previous setups I've owned.n
Edits: 06/04/12
Brought these home after going through at least 15 standmounts for my computer room. Fired up the system with Cat Stevens Teaser and the Firecat and noticed my foot was a'tapping! Now i know this disc extremely well and have played it at least 100 times, yet it sounded brand new with the Naim's. It ocurred to me after going to many live concerts that there aren't worries by the sound guys on "the guitar must come from THAT side", or the "VOCALS from over there. Just a nice wall of sound, that's what I like and have found :)
Come to the Darkside. We have cookies.
I use the term omnidirectional loosely but, in real terms the speakers approach the ideal of the concept. Standing beside or behind the speaker effects little overall change in the tonal balance other than rolling off of the very highest frequencies. The cone/dome woofer certainly helps in dispersion, as does the tiny box and free space positioning.
Not sure if they'll be my last set of speakers, but I've had them around for almost 12 years, and they sound better than ever on the end of my current system. Totem Model 1 Signature.
They're not perfect, but you pick both on what they do right that pleases you and what they do wrong that you find forgivable.
--
Keep your ears honest: Listen to live, unamplified music every week.
"They're not perfect, but you pick both on what they do right that pleases you and what they do wrong that you find forgivable."
Very well put! Yes, all designs have merits and drawbacks and you must pick the more important merits over the less important drawbacks for a given design. This ends a lot of arguments about speaker design philosophy right out of the box, since the selection of such criterion can be attributed to subjective preference more than anything else.
Although there is something to be said about transient accurate (phase/time coherent) loudspeakers that don't change the waveshape of music as it goes in and out. The audibility is surprisingly very small, and only painfully obvious with specific test tones that exacerbate the phenomenon. Some argue phase distortion is not an issue at all. Some argue it's the first and foremost consideration. I've pursued digital active crossovers (FIR and phase-corrected IIR) for years now and it's been a very rewarding, fun and educational path. Doing this in the analogue domain with real-world dynamic drivers is a whole other kettle of fish. I think I might try and find a pair of Vandersteens, actually! It would be nice to have a time-phase coherent reference in the house considering my hobby.
Thanks for chiming in!
Cheers,
Presto
Clements 207 d i
The search for my "final speaker" ended (successfully!) back in 1997.
Always been partial to conventional drivers in a box. After dabbling with planar/electrostatics I returned to the box fold, as this type of speaker offers IMO the best balance of performance and value.
After lengthy and extensive auditioning I settled on Aerial 10t's because I felt sure they would satisfy for a very long time. They were good at everything I cared about and their weaknesses were for me minor.
And indeed I've listened to these things for 15 years and never looked back. Still totally satisfied with no desire to ever replace them.
I have thoroughly enjoyed being off the speaker merry-go-round for these many years.
Thanks guys!
Very nice responses, thank you! A lot of food for thought.
I have horn-capable stuff here and that's one option. The other is electrostats/planar speakers or 1st order acoustics designs. I think it might come down to one of the final two.
Thanks for sharing parts of your personal audio journey! :)
Have a great weekend listening to your favorite speakers.
Cheers,
Presto
I have basically had three high fidelity speakers for my main system over the years. But then I audition speakers very carefully with a variety of different music, following the excellent advice given by Julian Hirsch. I also kept another criterion in mind, which was whether I would still like the speakers 20 years later. I used to use a tape with short takes of different types of music (full orchestra, male and female vocals, and piano to screen out the non-starters. Once I had some good recordings of mixed chorus, I added that, too. Now, I use CDs, especially classical samplers. This saves me time, and also saves time for the staff in the store or an acquaintance who has some speakers I would like to audition. Once the speakers pass the initial quick audition, I can audition the remaining ones at greater length. The top candidates I can audition at home.There is, of course, always the issue of which speakers to audition, as one cannot possibly audition them all. I have used various resources. Early on, there was my brother, but also there are professional reviewers, customer reviewers, knowledgeable dealers, and friends. I always liked to see what sort of correlation there was between the measurements supplied in some reviews and what I found with auditions. Of course, as time went on, I learned more and more.
First was the old Kef 104, later converted to 104aB when one of the crossovers went. The 104aB is a somewhat different speaker, and I am not sure that I liked it better. But it was still a very good speaker. It had a very even response in the listening window. Since 3/4" tweeter is crossed over to the 8" woofer at 3 kHz, the off axis response is not very even, compared with many modern speakers. The uneven power response makes placement finicky. Compared with many post digital speakers, they have some how limited power handling, especially with the undamped very low frequencies and with a tweeter with only 8 watts power handling.
Second, I got a pair of Quad ESL-63 speakers. These are also finicky as to placement but mostly for a different reason, that they are dipoles. It is takes careful placement to get male vocals (Roger Whittaker) correct, and like Richard C. Heyser, I never did really got them to sound quite right on piano--a strong point of the Kef 104. But they can sound outstanding on orchestra, chorus, vocals including opera, and various transients.
One of the ESL-63 power supplies blew, and meanwhile, we went away to help care for my wife's mother, who was very ill. Considering the cost of repair, and the limitations of the Quads in our present house, I thought I would audition some forward radiating speakers. When we got home several months later, I had not made up my mind, so for an interim, I got a pair of the old PSB Stratus Minis with a view to putting them in the 2.1 system in the family room for TV and movies. They had done better than most speakers when I auditioned them, and they did pretty well in our main system. I discovered that they were more neutral than the Quads, especially on orchestral recordings (i.e., on the Chandos label), and quite good on piano. However, their treble dispersion was not as even as I would like. But a very pleasant speaker, which does very well in the 2.1 HT system, excellent on vocals, music, with no listening fatigue.
I had heard quite a few different speakers. Finally, I decided to take the original Paradigm Signature S2 monitors for a home audition, and found they were just what I wanted. It is a neutral speaker, with a smooth, slightly laid back sound with the image tending to be behind the speakers. These speakers do not call attention to themselves. All in all, they are still one of the best speakers I have ever heard. The NRC measurements are superb. They show a couple of minor anomalies I would rather not see, but I have never noticed them in listening. My subwoofer adds deep bass to my system.
I am not currently in the market for new main speakers as the Signature S2 seems good enough for the foreseeable future.
-----
"A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser
Edits: 06/01/12
Good call Pat D on the Paradigm Signature S2. I currently am the proud owner of the S2 V2 with the Beryllium tweeters. I gotta admit that these are far and away the best monitors I've ever experienced (and I've experienced quite a few). I'm currently in the process of adding a smaller sub (looking at SVS or a SuperCube, perhaps) with Anti-mode 8033.
The bass response from these in my room is quite good, but I know a sub would really augment these to new heights. I, too, don't foresee myself changing it up any time soon, either.
I've been playing with audio toys for about 35 years now. I have *ended* my speaker search many times. I'm not naive enough to think that there will not be another search for speakers. The search IS the journey, it never ends until they bury me in a speaker box. :)
I have owned, and researched and auditioned several speakers over the years.(I've owned some large B&W mini-monitors, the DM-1600 I believe; then the Martin Logan Sequel IIs; then the original Revel Studios; and finally the aforementioned Andra II speakers.)
Speakers that I have greatly admired, but not owned, over the years include the Avalon Eidolons, the Apogee Divas, and the Rockport Antares.
The Rockport Antares are the finest speakers I've heard that cost less than $50K, which was, and still is, well beyond my $10K price range. Even used these are still around $30K. (FYI, my friend owns these, and his system is the best I have ever heard, bar none.) These have incredible bass response due to its 13" bass driver; a well extended and refined treble, (thanks in part to the Dynaudio Isotar tweeter it uses); and it has a mid-range that is very refined and incredibly transparent. These speakers disappear from the soundstage better than any other dynamic designed speaker I've ever heard. (The only minor issue with these speakers is that they are rear ported, so you need to provide a fair bit of room around them. But ported speakers are the norm, so it is what it is.) Their build quality is second to none, and they look incredible with their lamborghini silver finish. (FYI, these weigh over 400 pounds each, and my friend actually had piano movers come and set them up to avoid both the back breaking job of moving them and the possibility of scratching their fine finish.) So these are the speakers that I measure all other speakers by, and the ones I most wanted my future speakers to sound like.
The Apogee Divas were in my price range, and I loved the way the sounded many years ago. They imaged and soundstaged incredibly well, and were also very transparent. They were slightly soft in the deep bass region, but for that kind of sound, I could easily live with that minor omission. But being out of production really made me nervous in buying these used. (I know there is plenty of support still, but still, it made me think twice about getting them.) Plus the fact that they require lots of power, and due to their planer design, they need to pulled well out into the room, which also made me hesitate. (However, these were incredible sounding speakers, and if a really nice pair were to fall into my lap, I would probably give deep consideration to swapping them out for my Andra IIs; well, maybe; no, definitely, I think so; ah, almost certainly I think I would, but maybe not. Argh!)
The Avalon Eidolons were the one speaker that I highly considered in direct comparision to the Andra II speakers. They too image and soundstage incredibly well. (Both disappear from the soundstage nearly as well as the Antares.) Their mid-range is very transparent. The treble is very good, (albeit not quite in the Rockport Antares league though). The bass response though was definitely a concern as while they had very good bass, (nearly the equal to my Revel Studios at the time), they definitely were lacking deep bass response. They do require a good deal of power to get the full amount of bass response out of them, and they too are ported, so again, they need to be pulled out into the room a good amount. They also have a very flat frequency response, across the entire frequency spectrum. They are an excellent speaker IMHO, and are an equal to the Andra II speakers, just with different strengths and weaknesses. (The Eidolon Diamonds have great treble response, the equal to the Antares, so those were a consideration, (albeit at half again the price of the regular Eidolon - used of course). But the bass response is still a bit lacking. (FYI: On the other hand, the Avalon Isis is a true masterpiece; but the cost is way more than I could ever even contemplate, ... unless I were to steal my other friend's pair. Hmmmm. Something to thing about...) ;-)
Which brings me to the EgglestonWorks Andra II speakers. When I first saw the pictures of these, I was not too thrilled with them. (Their overall look reminds me of a barn to be honest.) However, when I saw them in person, they looked much nicer than in the stock pictures. Those polished black granite upper side panels look gorgeous, and accent the piano black finish of the lower body very nicely. The build quality is very high, (admittedly not as high as the Rockport Antares though, but what is?) They weigh 225 pounds each, so they are fairly rock solid. Listening to them, I immediately felt that they were very close to the Avalon Eidolons, as they image and soundstage at a very high level, (not quite as good as the Antares, but very close). In addition, they have a great bass response, very much like the Antares. (This is due to the twin 12 inch woofers, mounted in an Isobaric fashion.) They use an Isotar tweeter, like the Antares, so their treble response is very similar. (This is where they clearly beat my previous speakers, the Revel Studios, because while they were well extended, they lacked the refinement that the Isotar tweeter brings to the sound. It was the first thing I notice when I substituted them into my system.) The mid-range is provided by twin 6 inch drivers, and is very transparent as well. The other thing I really liked about them is the fact that they are a sealed system, so I did not have to worry about a port, or bringing them out into the room really far. (Although I do have them into the room by a couple of feet from the back of the speaker.) The only minor issue I have with the speaker is a minor mid-bass hump. (Some of this was due to my room, which I have now treated, somewhat successfully; but I still think there is a small rise in the mid-bass region.) However, in as that as I listen primarily to rock, I somewhat appreciate that additional power in the mid-bass region, so it is of little concern to me. I look upon the Andra II speakers as the Rockport Antares' little brother, so I feel that I have, for the most part, accomplished what I set out to find.
My three cents worth, (as this is rather long winded, it is more than the traditional 2 cents!) ;-)
Edits: 06/01/12
I have stopped with the Klipsch Jubilee.
Very compelling dynamic sound with an incredibly clean sounding horn-loaded bass.
.
why not first have a look at the JAES 2000 arcticle (Delgado & Klipsch). It specifies the Freq Response and Distortion measures for this bass bin. It can actually be crossed higher.
nt
It must be enormous! Even if the bass horn's folded, as in the real Klipschhorn Corner Horns, the cabinet's huge.
Are you sure?
Its a theater loudspeaker using dual 12in woofers in a W bin.
Even with corner loading [and assuming walls made of much more stiff and less resonant material than the ubiqutous (and acoustically horrible, unless you love overhanging boooom) plasterboard], those things must start dropping like a stone somewhere around 70hz. With concrete walls, you may get in-room -3db point around 60hz, or maybe 55hz, with some luck.
Mike: You are doing quite a bit of guessing.
They have the same lower end extension as a Klipschorn (about -5dB at 38 Hz, when placed in a corner)
t
-10db at 32 hz
... but pretty close: home made 'subwoofers' (Seas 10"), digital crossover Yamaha, bookshelves on top. B&W 805, Dynaudio Focus 140, Opera Callas... all vert good, but not perfect.
I am still searching for better bookshelves.
B&W 805D? Revel M22? Usher Be718? Totem Mani-2 Signature?
I didn't have the opportunity to listen to these.
Any advice? Other suggestions?
Thanks,
Yves
The problems inherent in most small speakers are mostly because they're... small speakers. It takes big speakers to control directivity, and directivity is absolutely critical to reducing the influence of the room.
Bass is supposed to sound big. 6.5" is not a woofer size.
In small and medium sized rooms - Audio Note largely undamped 2 ways. Teresonic Ingenium or Zu Audio single drivers and Trenner and Freidl's RA box are others that have impressed.
In a large room - Silbatone, Acapella, Sound Labs, and possibly Usher Be10 and Sony SS-AR1. I say possibly because I've only heard them once but they sounded real good that one time so it should be reproduceable.
I'm a bit of a speaker slut - Most good speakers do certain things really well - if you value one "certain thing" over another then that will serve you better.
Tannoy Canterbury 15"DC on custom stands with REL B1s, cut in from 23 Hz, down to 12Hz.
Everyone who has ever heard it said it was the best they ever heard at any price.
Best regards,
Jim Smith
A motivational one.
...a very successful midget entrepreneur who was a motivational speaker.
What you were looking for?
Yes, me too, on South Park......
First, Cerwin Vegas - Too bright and shrill, but rock your socks off
Then, Magnapan SMGA - Missed the rock your socks off
Now (and for 23+ years), ProAc Studio 3 - Good compromise, they do the audiophile thing well and can rock your socks when desired.
I have EBS and agree about dynamic capability of those speakers. Fit Hiquphon OWI replacement tweeter (special order for smaller faceplate $260 shipped) and it will transform the speaker) I can't afford the amp which would do them justice so they will have to go .
t
I liked Gene Cerwinski's specialty sound system for the film "Earthquake." At the time his 18" driver could produce 130dB at 30Hz. A later version found its way into Russ Allee's acoustic 360 horn loaded Bass amplifier of the late 60's. A designed wained by its incredible loudness at the end of its long wavelength in small venues.
If I'm not mistaken Gene Cerwinski is credited with developing the first solid state amplifier. I owned a Cerwin-Vega 1800A stereo amplifier and an acoustic 360. The 1800 benefited stunningly from modern parts, wire, and bypassing the gain attenuators.
As I look about my home today I have 5 systems with horns. 1 is using a wideband in BLH with a ribbon the rest all front loaded horns;). And another 1 system with a fullrange driver loudspeaker. Still I will use try or switch to anything I feel at most anytime. But in the end its horns horns and more horns. My horn collection starts with a 1896 Edison theater horn the rest pretty much covers the time span from there up to all new modern designs...
I liked the Rectilinear IIIs in college, auditioned the LS3/5a and thought about buying them, then listened to original Quad ESLs. End of search.
Linkwitz Labs Orions. I did live with a set of Quad 57s for many years and loved them but the Orions will be my last speaker system.
nt
Remember, it's all about the music.
You might as well get a list of every speaker made unless you are willing to narrow your search to your listening habits and music genres. Are you the type that wants music thrown into the room while you are busy doing other things or are you searching for focused listening in the sweet spot without any other distractions? Do you like hard rock where the bass moves furnature or is accoustic music exposed in a realistic soundstage with precise imaging more your target? Only after you narrow that down will anybody's opinion mean something to you.
For me, I am currently content with Maggie 1.7s augmented with a Velodyne F-1500 sub. My small listening room can't take a bigger panel. Some day I will likely aim at the same sound with a bigger panel, the 20.7s as offered today. Those probably don't need a sub.
I do focused listening with mostly accoustic music. The Maggies are superb under this usage. If I was a hard rocker, I have no idea what I would look for, but they wouldn't be planars.
I love the sound of resonating, unbraced plywood and/or particle board with old whizzer and triaxle cones in the morning. Sounds like...victory.
Like this?
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a
drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'
"If it don't thump, make it thump".
-Elmer Gump
12" DualConcentrics with Volt 12" radials in a T/L and ribbon supertweets, 4way active using analogue xovers with fourth order L-R filters and bipolar transistor amps.
Edits: 05/31/12
I own a whole lot of speakers, ranging from Tannoy 12inch Gold dual concentrics to Klipsch LaScalas. My real listening speakers are JM Lab Focal Electra 936s, Von Schweickert VR2s and Hyperion 585 Monitor 2 ways. I have several others including Vintage JBL C 38 with the 030 speaker package and more. I should sell some but can never bring myself to do it.
Steve
I've tried almost every configuration of speaker out there over the past 40 years, but it was Revel Salons that ended my search.
I ran out of money. The good news is that its a great place to stop.
~~~~~~~~~~~
... 99%'er
Not knowing what your room size is I will tell you what works for me in my room. I have a 12x18 room with 8' ceiling. I listen to all types of music. The speakers that I am happy with are Decware DM-945 stand mounts. They have a 8" full range woofer and a ribbon tweeter crossed over with a single capacitor. They have good bass response and are very coherent, no frequency range is prominent. I have thought of getting new speakers but I am afraid the new ones won't be as good as these.....
Late 1970s, made locally by Audiosphere. Mdel 3 2-ways using a WR smooth roll-off Foster/x woofer, and their big 35mm dome. I'd been involved in the development as a listener.Cast in reinforced & plasticised off-white concrete, in two halves and then cemented together with the same mixture. The casts were made from layers of marine ply glued together with 2-part epoxy and lacquered. So the cast spheres have fine ribs running around them.
That mean old single internal standing wave of a pulsating sphere? These are truncated by a small as possible circular baffle, which effectively spreads it into several, and thus much lower inenergy, modes - easily damped by the BAF lining. Most models are ported with a QB3 critically damped alignment.
Smooth diffraction behavious is easier to compensate for and it does help with nuance, expression and interplay. A quiet enclosure is also a good thing.
The originals used metallised film good sounding plastic dielectric capacitors in ladders, air core coils, all this in the late 1970s. The original pair have NOS tweeters due to cat claws. I picked up a second pair a few years ago.
Note that I bought the original pair instead of QUAD 57s, I was laso considerring NS1000Ms, or minis with local sub/stands, B&W's DM5s or LS3/5As.
I was working weeknds at Duratone Hi-Fi at the time. There was only one speaker around which was more open throated and true on voices, the smaller Audiosphere Model 2 using one of the famous Coral Flat 5 WR drivers. Far less bass even than the QUADs, and very easy to damage with a full-range signal played loud! I have a pair on loan and will soon own 3 more M2s.
One of the original two guys still makes a 2-way, much sought after by top musicians. I think it uses drivers from Triangle, or maybe Visaton.
I'm planning an active 3~4 way using M2s and M3's.
If I could run to Mangers I'd buy a pair to put in emptied M3 'spheres.
Note that a post in response is preferred.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
Edits: 06/01/12
keep me from actively swapping speakers. That said, I'm very happy with my Renaissance Audio Group Preludes for 2ch and Klipsch KLF 20s for home theater.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Tannoy Prestige Canterbury SE's.
nt.
...which began with Dahlquist DQ-10s and ended after 15 years of reviewing loudspeakers.I chose Thiel 7.2s - dynamic, 4-ways with a passive radiator, first order crossover, time and phase coherant with bass that extends below 30Hz.
I had owned many speakers and heard many more, primarily electrostatic, ribbon, hybrid and dynamic (no horns).
What I was looking for was something that sounded like music, played classic rock well, had terrific dynamics and great imaging.
I haven't wanted to hear another pair of speakers for 12 years.
Edits: 05/30/12
on speakers at least.
The Thiel 7.2s always struck me as one of the ultimate speakers, and the 3.6s too at a lesser price. I listened to the 3.7s at a dealers and they sounded nice, but didn't blow me away. Then again, I never hear anything right in a dealer's sound room, so I'm not saying the 3.7s aren't great. But I wish Thiel still made the 7.2s.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
...but knowing Thiel and having owned others in the past and listening to even other models friends own, I would guess the 3.7s are better than the 7.2s.
The 7.2s are difficult to match an amp to, but the Manley NeoClassic 250s really make them sing.
A friend has 2.4s and loves his Mac MC275 with them.
Most likely the 3.7s are easier to drive than 7.2s.
So I would advise anyone considering Thiels to try a good tubed amp.
I have gone through some speakers...Wife thinks I am crazy...Fishers, Mirage, B&W, Martin Logan. From large floor standers to bookshelfs and now back to floorstanders...I could not be happier. I have finally found my happy sound. Tyler Acoustics Woodmere II's. These are truly beautiful made of walnut standing five foot and coming in at 190 lbs each with all SEAS drivers and a tri-wire crossover using Cardas wire is pure heaven to my ears. These have been the best all around sounding speaker that I have heard. Never over embellished and most realistic. Blended with a tube pre-amp into a ss amp giving them 375wpc gives them what they truly desire.
.
"Lock up when you're done and don't touch the piano."
-Dr. Greg House
Cool design though.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
12" field coil fullrange in a large front load horn with Fostex tweeter.
i.e., Tannoy 215 DMT II
I would have to say "Maggies"!! :-))
I started off with a mildly tweaked pair of IIIas - the personal pair of my local Maggie dealer, when he decided to "switch sides" and become an Apogee dealer. He had removed the mid-range fuse, flipped the main panel so that the mylar was front and replaced the XO wiring with Cardas litz wire.
I then spent about 8 years upgrading them - like rebuilding the passive XOs, stiffening the MDF frame and having a braced stand made up - then I went 3-way active.
Then I got to thinking about how to make them even better! :-)) It struck me that the classic Maggie construction of having 2 drivers sharing the one sheet of mylar generates (undesirable) IMD ... and if the mid panel could be on its own sheet of mylar, it should sound "cleaner".
The Tympani-IV/IVa are the only ones in the Maggie range which do this (plus, have a "true ribbon") ... but these are unobtainable in Oz - and too wide for my room (and my wife! :-)) ).
So I mulled over how to make up some IIIas which had mid and bass panels on different sheets of mylar (which is effectively, a T-IVa having only 1 bass panel per side) and found that what was needed was to use T-IVa mid/ribbon panels plus 2.5/2.6 bass panels.
It took me 12-18 months to source these components but I was eventually able to build these "Frankenpans", as I call them. :-)) They use the same 3-way active XO I was running on my IIIas and the result is everything theory predicted it would be; because the bass panel is separate to the mid panel - and in a separate hardwood frame:
a) bass-mid IMD has been eliminated, and
b) vibrations generated by the bass panel are not transmitted to the mid panel or the ribbon.
So I expect to remain with these unique Maggies until I have to downsize to go into a retirement home! :-)) The only thing that would make them sound better, would be a pair of subs ... unfortunately "the wifey" is not too keen on this idea. :-((
Regards,
Andy
I am right there with you using my Magnepan IIIas but with a Velodyne HGS-12 Series II sub.
The 107dB Avantgarde Duo Omega. Pure heaven with 18 watts of Lamm SET power.
"Your liver suffers dearly now for youthful magic moments...so rock on completely with some brand new components"
the Tempesta by Selah Audio. Scanspeak Illuminator woofers, Accuton 2" ceramic "dome" mid, RAAL ribbon on top. Good solid cabinets, excellent xover. Nothing revolutionary, but they match up with anything I've owned and most of what I've heard at any price, at a real world size and price. So satisfying I think they have very likely ended my trading around.
Edits: 05/30/12
I confess I've always been a coherency freak. In addition, Sound Lab U-1s provide nearly flat measured in-room response from 25 to 200 hz, neutral tonal character and avoid the beaming issue found on every other electrostat I've heard.
If I were to win the lottery, I'd get a bigger room, more transparent electronics and an array of them like Ray Kimber has demoed at various RMAF shows.
I'm done choosing speakers.
I built my first loudspeaker as a teenager. Several followed until I became preoccupied with family and career for many years, during which I enjoyed Bozak speakers. I took up speaker design and building again in retirement with the goal of reproducing the nuances of chamber music, which led to an interest in micro dynamics and time- and phase alignment.
After several disappointing but educating efforts, mostly with original designs, I have settled on my own design two-way, minimalist first order series, time- and phase aligned system. The drivers are Seas -- CA22RNX 8" paper-cone woofer and 27TBFC/G 1" alloy dome tweeter. They are enclosed in a heavily built two cu ft reflex box. They cross over at about 2100 HZ with an Erse foil inductor and a Tony Gee mix of Clarity and Mundorf caps. When appropriate they are supplemented by a separately amplified subwoofer of my own build.
I mostly listen to vinyl.
I am presently helping a friend build his own version. I consider my goals fulfilled by these speakers.
You have built what I am looking for! 8" paper cone, first order crossover, two way, time and phase aligned, solid cabinet, ported.
All the best
Bill
...ad nauseum. The speaker that started my quest about 3 years ago for serious transparency is a pair of Audio Physic Avanti IIIs. It uses a ring-radiator tweeter (but not a very good one and I replaced it with a B-G Neo-3), a 6" upper-bass/MR driver, an almost identical upper-bass/lower-MR driver, and four 7" bass drivers. I outboarded and upgraded parts in the x-overs, replaced all internal wiring, actively filtered the bass, and got it to what I'll call low-5-star quality. That got me wanting more transparency and I bought a pair of Vandersteen 5As. I've replaced 3 bypass caps in the very complicated crossovers and added a spikebar to their rears, but otherwise they're stock. They're also the best-sounding speakersystems I've EVER heard.So...multiple moving-coil drivers arranged in a simulated point source and all acoustically correctly timed, all same electrical polarity, and all filters electrically first order and in phase. With the EXCELLENT powered woofer with 100Hz lo-pass filter, it's a 4-way, 5-driver* system. I'm now almost finished bringing all other parts of my system up to the quality of the V'steen 5Bs.
* There's a tweeter on the rear for additional 'ambience'.
----------
Tin-eared audiofool, former fotografer, and terrible competitive-pistol shootist.
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted." Albert Einstein.
Edits: 05/30/12 05/30/12 05/30/12
Vandersteen 3A signatures with 2Wq subs.
They do the job very well and haven't got me willing to spend more.
Have fun
I currently enjoy older Living Voice Avatars and consider staying with them for many more years. They work in a very small room just fine creating unique, intimate musical experience. I never heard american speaker performing at this level , it probably doesn't exist.
One of my family members asking for help to clear out all my speakers at my funeral.
In my lifetime I would like it to be a pair of Tannoy Westminster royals. Not that I have heard a pair or anything. So dont take my word for it
Nice thread!
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