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In Reply to: RE: I used to listen in a 10' x 12' room... posted by Abel McCain on July 03, 2009 at 19:44:06

...and you'll see that my room has awful geometry (11' x 11.5' x 12'), but provides an oustanding listening experience. Don't let anyone discourage you. Small rooms have their challenges, but they also have some huge advantages:
1) You only have to optimize the sound for one single listening position
2) You don't need a lot of amplification power
3) Spousal Acceptance Factor isn't usually as significant
4) Less square footage to acoustically treat
But the challenges are real:
1) If you do not put up acoustic treatments on the walls, and bass traps in the corners, you really are wasting your time and money.
2) You need an amplifier and speakers that respond well and are articulate at lower volumes and wattages (hense my selection of Green Mountain Audio and Ayre).
3) Get youself a comfortable office chair and an ottoman.
4) While is sounds like overkill, 2 small subs are a perfect compliment to stand-mount speakers (crossed-over well under 40 Hz). These help control the level of the low end allows variable placement / phase control to help smooth out the low end.
5) Consider the heat you equipment generates, as that will play a factor in the enjoyment of your small room. This is another one of the reasons I bought an Ayre integrated over going back to tubes.
And while I have not done this one yet...
6) Power filtration is important.
FRIEND, WHAT A MONEY AND AWE INSPIRING POST YOU'VE MADE. That garners respect where I live. Even if it weren't in Texas. Cheers.
Edits: 07/12/09
Why not go for the new JMR Duet. By the way, which software are you using for creating your room floor plan. Just curious
Good luck!
l2sasm
You did a fantastic job of showing and describing your system in room and the choices that you made and why. I am bookmarking it for future consideration. Fantastic contribution to this forum. Thanks.
Wow! Wonderful room and system Nicholas. Very impressive. It's encouraging to see someone put the thought and care that you so obviously have into a smaller system. This is the kind of thing I have only seen a handful of times and only in much larger more costly systems. I bet it sounds fantastic!
I have been putting off room treatments for way to long. I am aware of this. I always rationalize it in my mind thinking that some one like me with limited resources can always do things like this at a latter date and it just never gets done. The big purchase always wins out. I want to do it right this time and your advice just reinforces the justification for doing so. I have tried to arrange the room the best i could by putting a large Persian rug on the right side wall and record storage and bookshelves on the left. this obviously is not very balanced but does help quite a bit.
Any recommended companies that make room treatments? The Real Traps look effective but also kind of bulky. My room is set up almost like yours with just a few differences. The doorways in the room are on the rear wall to the left and right hand side of the listening posistion. There are two windows in the room, one is on the center of the front wall like yours is, the other is on the right hand wall in the upper corner of the room. Were would I put a bass trap in this posistion? The rear wall is obviously out because of the doorways.
Thanks again! Sucks that the Callisto's are no longer available.

First of all, give Roy Johnson a call at GMA about your speaker wants / needs. Trust me.I used Acoustics First for my panels. The prices are killer if you stick to their stock panel sizes. Have them send you a set of fabric samples before you order. It's a must. I'm very satisfied with their product and service.
Without seeing a diagram of your room, it's hard to suggest sizes and placement of panels. There is also a good acoustics forum over at AudioCircle.com. If you can put together a diagram, post it over there as well. Good people.
Edits: 07/06/09
Alright, so here is what I've decided to do. Room treatments are going to be put on hold AGAIN. I know, I know, but it won't be for long I assure you. The reason why? Read on.
For the speakers I've decide to go with the Odeon Rigoletto's. At first they seemed on the large side for the size of the room and not to mention over budget, but after many conversations with Jeffrey Catalano(who I can't say enough good things about), he assures me they will work with the available space and not against it. He also gave me a pretty stupid deal on them so if for any reason they don't work out I should be able to recoup my expenses. I'm not worried. I have the utmost confidence in Jeff.
So that's where things stand for now. A little over budget but that's alright. The speakers won't show up for a few weeks most likely, but if you're interested in seeing a pic of the actual pair that are being sent to me you can find them on the RMAF 2008 page over at Audiogon. I'll post some pics of my own over there when everything looks presentable!
Thanks again everyone!
On two fronts:
1) Green Mountain Audio Callisto, I think they should be a consideration for anyone thinking small.
2) Room treatment, essential to get that small area bass right, essential for everyone, of course. I think with the right treatment a small room can present a better listening environment than a large untreated family room. Large forces MAY still be a challenge, and really only in fortissimo passages.
If this is a spare bedroom and you can do what you want, try to include ceiling absorption, as well as the walls and corners. You might also play with setting up the system on the diagonal.
Gregg
Of course, if you are completely happy with a nearfield presentation and one good seating position in a small room then there is no problem. My problem is that, having gone from a 10' x 12' room to a 12' x 33' one, I can no longer deal with the intensity of nearfield listening on a full time basis. But none of us should lose the ability to deal with changing circumstances in life and if I had to go back to a nearfield set up in a 10' x 12' room again, I would want loudspeakers that might occasionally allow for a midfield perspective. I would probably buy speakers that could be placed in the corners or against the front wall and I would shove my listening chair almost all the way back to the opposite wall, giving me close to 9 or 10 feet of listening distance. Distance in listening (at least in the relative sense) can be "like a breath of fresh air" now and then...
Edits: 07/04/09 07/04/09
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