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| Model: | Poor Man's Strad |
| Category: | Speakers |
| Suggested Retail Price: | $1000 |
| Description: | Full range 3 way wide baffle floorstander |
| Manufacturer URL: | DIY |
| Model Picture: | View |
| Review by jonbee on May 02, 2009 at 10:56:54 IP Address: 76.22.110.151 | Add Your Review for the Poor Man's Strad |
The "Poor Man's Strad" is a DIY design created by Troels Gravesen, a Dane who has created an impressive number of high quality DIY designs. Mr. Gravesen clearly knows his craft, as anyone who reads his site will attest.
The manufacturer's link is wrong and can't be edited, so here is the url: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/PMS.htm.
The PMS is an attempt to mimic the wide baffle cabinetry of the $40,000 Sonus Faber Stradivarius, a flagship design of very high reputation.
By using a wide baffle with curved wings and panels, the idea is to kill several birds, fom cabinet box resonances to room interactions. The design is a 3 way using good Seas paper cone drivers and a finely tweaked 12 db/oct xover.
I found a pair locally that was made to a very high standard by a cabinet maker, and bought them for a very good price. On this pair the xover is in a separate box on the back of the speakers.
I was able to compare them to a pair of Dunlavy SC-IVs and my own VMPS RM30Cs, both highly regarded high resolution designs.
The PMS is at once very impressive- wide range with a bottom end that is very useful to at least 30 hz., and no noxious colorations across the board. Dynamics are very impressive. The cabinets are truly inert, and the image is wide and very natural. Detail is clear and uniform from top to bottom, without obfuscation in any area. The overall presentation is uniform and very smooth. They are also very easy to drive.
There are some attributes that give it some character. The highs are detailed and very smooth, but the dome tweeter rolls off steadily from 14khz or so. There is also a bit of a depression from 3-5khz., which gives it a forgiving nature compared to the VMPS or Dunlavys, but the top overtones on piano or voice are also slightly recessed. The third area is a slight rise in the mid to upper bass.
The effect of these is to give the speaker a slightly warm, laid back and forgiving nature. Compared to the VMPS or Dunlavys, it seems that the resolution is slightly forshortened as a result. This may or may not work to benefit the owner, depending on material, room and equipment matchups, and taste.
Overall, this is a very successful design. They are absolutely lovely to listen to, with no fatigue over long periods. While they are warmer than many hi-rez high end speakers, the sound is uniform and well integrated sounding much like live music in that regard.
Overall, I think these are about as good a speaker as one could hope to buy in the $3-4k retail range, and can be built as a project for well under $1k. The cabinetry is very complex, so it is not a project for newcomers.
There is a ton of info on these on Troels' website. He is clearly very proud of the design, and rightly so, in my opinion.
| Product Weakness: | A bit rolled off on top, and laid back overall. complex to build! |
| Product Strengths: | Smooth, uncolored, great dynamics. Forgiving. Deep, powerful bass. Fairly efficient, easy to drive. |
| Amplifier: | ps audio gcc-250 |
| Preamplifier (or None if Integrated): | none |
| Sources (CDP/Turntable): | modwright/sony 9100 cdp |
| Speakers: | see text |
| Cables/Interconnects: | all silver |
| Music Used (Genre/Selections): | lots, varied |
| Room Size (LxWxH): | 16 x 19 x 8 |
| Room Comments/Treatments: | room is slight bright, eats bass |
| Time Period/Length of Audition: | 1 week |
| Other (Power Conditioner etc.): | ps audio quintet |
| Type of Audition/Review: | Product Owner |
> The highs are detailed and very smooth, but the dome tweeter rolls off steadily from 14khz or so.
From Troels' site:
Tweeter [T27TFFC] is basically flat from 1500 Hz to 20 kHz and has the same little wrinkle around 17-18 kHz as seen from the T25 tweeter.
Looks quite flat out to 20kHz, no?
Perhaps you set of tweeters is damaged or the crossover was improperly assembled. The Seas T27TFFC has probably the best reputation in the DIY community of any tweeter (cost no object), which is quite impressive especially considering this is a $35 tweeter! This tweeter has been measured by countless people and Troels' FR graph looks like all others that I have seen for this unit. This tweeter also has significantly low distortion.
I suspect any perceived "detail" "advantage" by your other "reference speakers" is a deviation from flat response and/or higher levels of even order distortion.
that's the way it sounds, too. My ribbon tweeters are flat well past 20k, and sound that way.
He has engineered the response of the speaker to tilt downwards (a good idea). 100Hz is 3db elevated from flat and 20kHz is down 2db.
Besides, an on-axis plot of the response doesn't tell the whole story. Power response is a big contributor to sound quality and I have no doubt his design is more accurate in that regard than your "reference speakers".
"Power response is a big contributor to sound quality and I have no doubt his design is more accurate in that regard than your "reference speakers""
Seconded. I understand Troels' designs his speakers to have an even power response. If all other factors are held constant, a design with an even power response is generally more desirable. The difficulty is, other factors are not held constant, other factors may be more desirable, and "generally" is not equal to always. Thus, individual preferences...
That said, I think Troels' preferences match mine quite well and his designs would suit me nicely - his HiEff designs (using the JA8008 driver) are in my future.
Cheers
Raymond
"As long as we have any intention to be right... we should be wary. So long as words have the slightest ego attachment, they are dishonest."
Charlotte Joko Beck
the 6db/octave drop from 14 khz. is very typical of 1" soft domes. I agree it is a good sounding tweeter... that rolls off on top as they all do. For flat response to 20k, a 21mm design would be better, with poorer bottom end response... it is all about tradeoffs.
Troels uses the G2si ribbon, which I have in my VMPS, in his Acapella SE. He shows curves compared to a Seas tweeter. 'Nuff said!
Edits: 05/06/09
Exchanged a few messages with Troels, he is an amazing fellow and I think of him as the Nelson Pass of DIY 'speakers in terms of quality and completion of his design art and what he has provided to the DIY community.
What tweeter did Mike use? If it is the 27TFFC there is a tweak that may reduce that 3-5khz dip, it's detailed on Troels PMS page.
I'll be making a composite cabinet using lost foam, hope to get to it by the Fall and I'll post photos' here.
J.B.
Sounds interesting. Material? A diy, or are you farming it out?
"dammit"
Regarding the crossovers, what brand(s) of resistors and inductors are used? I see the caps used are Jantzen, which are very good.
Brian Walsh
my speakers yet to see what's installed.
I'm glad you are enjoying them. Are they going to be your new reference?
but the Strads will be an alternative for a while, though.
BTW, the pair in the link is not my pair, unfortunately. The pair I bought is documented on Troels' site, however. Click the link below and scroll down a bit to Mike Kelly. His work is also top notch. They have an outboard xover, too.
Edits: 05/05/09
.
Who will build me a pair like the ones supplied on your pic for 1000$?
In Canada, the drivers alone retails at 594.06$
nm
The labor of building would cost you extra, but if you DIY, with drivers and crossover parts from Solen, and MDF and veneer from the lumberyard, you might squeak in around $1,000.
There is a fellow named Nik Brewer who posts on the Parts Express forum, who does custom CNC work. He could cut all the panels to spec for you, so you'd just have to do the assembly, and his rates are quite reasonable. Shipping to Canada would be the killer, though. You could check with some local cabinet makers and see what they would charge.
I haven't personally built any of Troels Graveson's designs, but really enjoy his website. His discussions of theory and design process are most informative and educational.
I built some Pro-Ac "clones" using Troels crossover designs, and am satisfied with the results.
My cabinets were made by a professional , and the whole cost me a bit more than 1000$, including drivers and x-over parts.
and the drivers look great. Proof once again that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Not that I'd ever skin a cat or anything, but you know what I mean. My cat that keeps an eye on my computer activities is rather pi$$ed right now.
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