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In Reply to: RE: No, 24 tube watts into 91 db (or more) speakers in a mid sized room posted by keith_d on January 06, 2009 at 16:21:28
Sorry if I started something here, I never said I couldn't lower the volume, I can. What I can't do is get beyond the 10 o'clock position without blasting myself and my ears to oblivion. At low volume the sound is so veiled and thin I don't bother. I definitely need better speakers and perhaps I went the wrong direction upgrading the amps and source first.
All that said it appears I have a very strong 24 watts of push pull 300b output, more than my speakers or my ears can handle and that's why I'm here looking for advice on new or used loudspeakers. I'm also considering a pair of B&W 802 Matrix Series 3 I could pick up locally from audiogon.
Brian
Follow Ups:
"As it stands now I have too much gain, I believe the Klipsch are about 91dB and they are just way too loud with the amp I have."This is quite a bit different from saying something like, "I want speakers which will sound good (not thin) when played at low and moderate volume levels."
Oh well, back to the drawing board for me!
Edits: 01/06/09
My original point was, and I probably didn't state it properly, was that I'm looking for speakers which will sound good at low to moderate levels but also when I want to crank it a little. As I said, I can barely get passed the 10 o'clock position without having to walk out of the room so I doubt I'm getting to the point where I'm getting the best from the amp.
I know the speakers are many steps below the quality of the rest of the system so I was just looking for advice on the Vandy's or a similar speaker. I want quality but really don't and can't spend 5 k on speakers, at least right now. And I think getting away from horns is what I want to do as well.
Sorry for any mis info...
Brian
There is no need to apologize. Sometimes it takes a few exchanges for adequate clarification. Besides the problem you express, excessive volume very early in the volume control range, is not uncommon. I have similar scenarios expressed numerous times in these forums. Most people just live with it (or even brag about it because they think it means their amps are brawny). It's good that you recognize that situation this can be a problem. What makes your problem a bit unusual is that your amp is of fairly low wattage. Perhaps your speakers (Klispch) are more sensitive than you realize?A couple of posts up I cited the *exact* problem I experienced a few years ago. I was fortunate enough to have a "gain control" on my amplifier which easily dealt with the problem. At 0 gain the volume at "10:00" was far too loud, but changing the gain to (I think) -24 enabled the volume control turned to 2:00 or so before reaching the equivelant volume level. Some amps (and pres) still have this control but it is not as common as in the past which is why I had my current amp modified by the designer to preclude the problem you described.
And you are probably right on in your description of the veiled sound that you experience with the volume control barely turned up. Paul McGowan of P.S audio explained to me at a CES once that the volume control is at it's best (sounds its best) when it is more fully open (not working to supress) the volume from the amp. When the volume control is closed it is working the hardest. I've have always had my volume controls set so that they have to be almost fully open to access full power. My speakers are just as efficient as yours and my amps generate about a 1000 watts. Of course, it helps (in my case) that I use a passive line stage instead of a pre amp.
You might double check to see if your amp or pre has some way to adjust gain. Otherwise, you may need to upgrade/change one of the other to gain flexibility. I don't think changing speakers is the answer (to resolve the gain issue) because while they are fairly efficient (for speakers) they are not *that* efficient and probably most speakers, save the least efficient models will cause similar issues for you.
Robert C. Lang
Edits: 01/07/09
Robert,
I alluded to the generous input sensitivity of his amps in my previous post above and the need for a lower gain preamp. Then I looked at his system and noticed he was already using a Canary preamp. You would think this would be a good combination since it has only has 9db of gain. I am using my canary amps with a deHavilland UV which has 12 db of gain and it works very well. So I don't think it is an amp/preamp mismatch at all. Could the Klipsch speakers he is using be more sensitive than specified?
So I agree. He not only needs better speakers, but ones of lower sensitivity.
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
I didn't see your post above. Your are right. This is why I asked again about the sensitivity of his speakers. The 91 he cited is low for most Klipsch speakers
Robert C. Lang
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