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Have been reading a lot of favorable reviews for the combination of Naim electronics and Neat speakers and, since I'm not going to pay fifteen-k for a pair of Linn Komri's (much as I'd like to), I noticed two pair of Neat speakers on the 'gon -- one pair of Mystique 2's from a seller with high feedback and one pair of Motive 1's from a seller with slightly fewer feedback ratings as a seller, but still no negatives. (The Motive-I's might be slightly over-priced, since you can apparently buy Motive-II's brand new for a little less than he's asking.)The Mystique's seem to be very, very highly lauded in the amateur review literature, and they're a lot less money, but their 86dB sensitivity rating doesn't augur well for good agility from the little Nait. The Motive I's, I believe, are 89dB. My buddy brought his Linn Katans over (also 86dB, I think) and they sounded flat and lifeless with the Nait, compared with his 100wpc Linn separates.
I'm curious to know if anyone has a strong opinion one way or the other. I'm running Linn Ninkas right now and they sound great with the AV2/Nait5i combination, but soundstage and micro-detail could both be a little better. The Audio Physic Spark IIII's were too laid back for my tastes: need more PRAT, more soundstage, lean bass and no boxes clamoring for attention at the front of the listening room. The Ninkas did better for me than the Sparks.
Stay with the Ninkas, try the Mystiques, try the Motive-I's, or keep lookin'? Anything else out there I should know about?
Cheers.
Edits: 01/27/08Follow Ups:
From a direct perspective, I have owned the Nait 5 and 5i and also the Neat Mystique, Elite and now Motive 1s. The Motives are awesome speakers in all regards. The Neat Mystiques were the best value of all especially if bought used. They don't have the top end finesse of the Elite or Motive but have a very seamless soundstage for a great overall musicality and do micro dynamics well though if you are into Naim the sounstaging thing will keep between the speakers for the most part anyway, it's the Naim as much as the Neats. The most suprising thing is they fill the space between the speakers as well as any speaker I have heard. All of the Neats just have a fast, seamless presentation. The Motive line is a good notch above the Mystique and Elite in my opinion but they do seem to want more power even though they are rated as being more efficient. Man, can they sound big even with a 5i. The Mystique is easy to run with a FC'd Nait 5 or a 5i based on my experience. I now use a Unico for the Motives but the Nait 5i drove them fine, I wanted more dimensionality than the Naits offer.
I also owned Katans which are natural sounding but just are not dynamic speakers no matter the amp. I would think any of the Neats would be more lively and dynamic than the Ninka's as well but I haven't compared them.
This might be the most interesting post of all, so far: the Mystiques beat the Katans, for you? My buddy and I are completely sold on the Katans (though they don't go low enough for me, and my Nait5i doesn't get them up and hoppin' the way the Linn AV5105 does. The Katans are, I think, 84dB, so your experience with them not being dynamic may be an artifact of their higher power requirement, but this being said, do I hear you saying that there is more detail and/or more soundstage from the Mystiques? Or just more dynamics? This is potentially a big moment: I'd have the Katans and a Sizmik (subwoofer) if I could get the Katans to actually run off the limited power, and if the Mystiques are more detailed and better at imaging, we might just have something, here.
I wouldn't use the term "beat" the Katans as the two are quite different designs and will appeal differently to people. The Katan has supeb voicing and pitch definition, no question. If you love vocals and inner detail, the Katans are superb, they just don't rock much. I also ran active Katans with 2 Linn LK85s so power is not the issue, it's the design as they have strengths other than dynamics. The Neats rock and are very agile even with a 30wpc Nait 5. You get a better sense of scale and the "whole" of the musical presentation. If you took each on voicing alone and listening for decay etc, the Katan may be favored, play a whole rock song and I think you'd get into the tune more on the Neats. If you are into Naim, the analytical "audiophile" thing should be in the past with the music coming first. Same with the Neats. Easier to hear than to explain.
go together like peanut butter and jelly :)
Your 5i will have no problem with the Mystiques. I had a pair with the original 5 ( 30 watts).
I had a blast when i had my Mystiques.Not really an audiophile speaker ( pinpoint imaging, inner detail stuff) Set them up a few inches from the front wall, point them straight ahead drop in a disc and break out the air guitar. The mystiques never failed to entertain.
If you dont like them, they're difficult to resell. offer $500 and see what happens.
Very interesting reply -- I'd been led to believe that micro-detail and imaging were what I *would* get from the Mystiques, and your reaction seems to point the other way, toward a more "musical" sound. I really do like those tiny little nuances in my recordings and a truly holographic soundstage, despite the fact that neither of these aspirations is in fashion right now. Do I hear you saying that these might not fit the bill and, if so, is there something else that would? I'm bullish on these at $500 if you don't think I'm going to miss the two things I like most.
That would be correct IMHO.
I've also owned a pair of Neat Elites SEs. Now, with its ribbon tweeter you'll get that detail you're looking for but not that expansive soudstage or 3D imaging.They were not designed for that.
Dont know anything about the Motive line.
If you're looking to spend $500 to $750, may i suggest a used pair of Vandersteen 1Cs. Get the idea that these Vandys slow or warm out of your head especially when driven by a Nait 5i. The Vandersteen 1cs will give you the audiophile qualities as well as get your foot tapping. Just a little light in the bass. it could be due to the naims leaness in the area. I still own a pair but its now doing HT duty.
PS: Get yourself a proper CD player :^) A Naim CD5 with a flatcap later on would do you well
All of a sudden I'm hearing about these how-can-you-lose speakers by an outfit called Wharfdale (never heard of 'em), as lean at the bottom, good for soundstaging and detail, and -- perhaps -- just a little less laid back than the 'Steens, which are always a brand that deserves serious consideration. The pair of Wharfdale's that has been suggested to me by a local confidant is the Emerald 97's. According to him they can be had for perhaps as little as $300, a pittance (compared to what I've been tossing at all of this up to now), and then promptly re-sold on EBay if they failed to suit.
So, at the end of the day, the wacky contrarian thought I had is that I could buy the Neat Mystiques, the Vadersteens, the Wharfdales, keep the Ninkas *and* the Sparks, and then, once the Naim stuff comes back from the shop and the bass-traps are finished, I could sell "N-1" of the assortment and keep the one pair that I liked best with the repaired Nait5i and AV2, assuming they can be repaired. I could do all of that for an additional up-front exposure of under two grand, and in the selloff I'd probably lose less than the cost of the two tanks of gas and the two days of frustration that I'd encounter at dealerships.
I realize that this is the EXACT opposite of the advice I've been getting (and I am taking that advice seriously, make no mistake), but I've also always been a firm believer in the mantra that there's no way to tell anything until the stuff is in your own room, anyway. ...Plus I'm a stubborn bastard.
Thoughts are welcome.
If you are enjoying this process, fine, but it strikes me that you have picked an incredibly inefficient way to go about putting together a system. No one but you knows precisely what you are after (although a good dealer probably could eventually get a handle on it). Reviews and comments on forums are far from reliable sources for what equipment will sound like to you especially as integrated together into a system in your room.
I'm not opposed to buying used gear but buying unheard is a major risk unless you actively enjoy buying, selling and shipping equipment and know you are buying at a price with near 100% recapture on resale. In my case I'm a three to four hour drive away from the closest decent dealers* and there is is no significant concentration of good private systems within a hundred mile radius but I've managed to hear almost everything I own before buying. In Florida it should be easy unless you have a medical condition that makes very difficult or prevents travel.
*my experience is that good dealers can be a great help but the usual caveat applies - Don't waste a dealer's time if you're going to turn around and try to find the gear used or from another dealer.
From an earlier post.
- http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=amp&n=121545&highlight=tampa&r=&session= (Open in New Window)
if the Ninka works in your room, I'd opt for not changing the speakers.
Mirco dynamics and soundstage can be improved from a source end.
I've yet to try the Mystique, but tried both Petite and Elite on the end of either my Nait 3R or 552/200.
Whilst they both had an exceptional dynamics ( both micro and macro ) and threw a pretty impressive soundstage particularly with a 200, I found that they were tricky to set up in room. And I felt that a 300 could have been even better than a 200. ( whatever the power you can give, they'll respond better )
A mystique might be easier to drive than the Elite, but if the room is half way decent size, I'm not sure if a Nait 5i would cut it.
I realise changing speakers might be the most economical way to get what you're looking for but then you sure don't want to end up with speakers that will work against your room.
BTW, I don't get the attraction of the Komri. Maybe I haven't had a good demo on the pair just yet.
Hi, Kuma. The source is an Arcam FMJ CD23 which seems to do really well -- though I suppose Naim makes something that would give me the impression that a hamster was running on a treadmill inside my Arcam. Interconnects are Belden 95259 with Cardas plugs, made by Blue Jeans Cable. (There's an opitcal digital output, too, but the AV2 has completely crapped the bed: now the volume pot doesn't work at all and the input selector doesn't progress sequentially through the choices.)
I slept on it and the other inmate is right: buying speakers sight-unheard, especially if they are obviously tricky loads to drive, is silly.
On the other hand, and maybe it's me, but I've yet to have an experience with a dealer that wasn't utterly excruciating -- either because the guy tries to throw his weight around ("This Rotel RC995 is a thousand-dollar preamp on the resale market"), dismisses me at first glance as a stroker ("I don't actually have the piece we discussed over the web because I didn't know you were coming"), has terrible setups for mediocre gear ("We've got a twelve-hundred dollar Yamaha that you're free to listen to in this hallway, but only if you don't turn it up past 1"), or some combination of all three.
I guess what all of this means is that the quest is shortly coming to an end -- successfully or otherwise. I've got a friend making bass traps for me to deaden my terrible listening room, and the Ninkas sounded great for the thirty seconds that it took the pre-owned AV2 to go the rest of the way haywire. Looks like the thing to do is get the AV2 (and the Nait5i, which is also a lemon) fixed -- no doubt at considerable expense -- and then call it a day.
If your room is not working with a speakers, it's a uphill battle. ( you know how it is )I sympathise with your dealer situation. I've had many unpleasant visits with a few *audio salon*.
Anyways, it's silly to swap out the speakers ( that's your biggest variables ) when you know your electronics are working less than optimum.
Sit tight till they are fully serviced.
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