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After 15 devoted years with Wilson speakers, I have traded the Watt/Puppy 8 for the Magico V3. This decision came after six months of listening to the Magicos almost every Saturday afternoon, and driving the staff nuts here at Sound by Singer. Took so long partly because I simply didn't want to face the fact that the W/P 8 wasn't giving me the same pleasure as the W/P 7. So a word of advice; if you have the 7's, don't let them go. With the Magicos I have the same wonderful experience I had with the 7's; I am able to forget the equipment and immerse myself totally in the music. So far I have seen no review of the V3, but apparently John Atkinson liked them at one of the recent shows. Magico is a small company in the SF Bay area, with very few dealers. But if any Asylum reader owns them or has heard them, I would love to trade enthusiasm. So far the only small negative is a slightly excessive bass on some of my organ records, but I plan to move them forward in my listening room tonight and see what that does for them.
Follow Ups:
Since the Bay Area Audiophile Society (BAAS) demos have come up several times in this thread, perhaps I can shed some additional light on them.
I might have a bit of a listening advantage in that I attended both sessions. Here's some background on the event.
First, the room. The demos were held in a very large room whose walls, floors, and ceiling were concrete. Exposed steel beams and HVAC gear in the ceiling completed the look (and the sonic profile). The room was maybe 40' x 120' x 12'. That's 60K cubic feet of air to move. Only minimal room treatments had been done. So it was a challenging venue.
Second, the electronics. The two sessions featured different mixes of electronics - but in all cases VTL tubes. The Magico's (both Mini and V3) acted as magnifying lenses on the quality of upstream components and the recordings played on them. I would say that they are 'ruthlessly' transparent.
Third, measured response. I had the opportunity to measure the room response of the V3's in that room using my handy pink noise disk and real-time spectrum analyzer. They were essential flat up to the treble, which (as is normal) gently rolled off with frequency at the listening position. As I recall, the V3's rolled off gently in the bass starting at about 30hz. (Remember, this was room response in a concrete room!)
My own observations:
1. These Magico's are excellent kit. They are transparent, honest, quick, and powerful. They reminded me at times of Analysis Audio's excellent full-range ribbons. Ruthlessly revealing but still tuneful. Titanium fist in a (thin) velvet glove.
2. They need power. Sealed enclosures. 50 pounds of crossover. Small-to-medium sized cabinets. I listen to all kinds of music, and very seldom above 90 db. But if I owned V3's, I'd have 200w at least. 300w for Mini's. Since they dip to 4 ohms or so (I think with modest phase swing), SS may be best.
3. GIGO (garbage in, garbage out). The Magico's will make unappealing electrical signals sound worse - whether the fault is the source material or the upstream system. Period. There is no forgiveness. If a power amp can't keep its capacitors charged, you'll hear it. Jitter, ditto. Bright mixes, watch out.
4. I found the V3 to be the more capable and versatile speaker. It can really rock, and is significantly more capable in the bottom octave. But I found the Mini more engaging and approachable. They were clearly built by the same hand, though. In the final analysis, I'd personally buy the V3's.
5. Most of us are now accustomed to the 'loose & deep' bass signature of vented woofer designs. So at times the Magico's felt thin down there. I think that this was largely a subjective thing - that their extension was quite good (but maybe not best-in-class). My objective measurements bore this out.
In summary, no device can live up to the 20-page assault of superlatives in the current TAS. But I believe that the Magico's are world-class products, designed by a passionate and brilliant practitioner of his art. They should be auditioned if possible by buyers in this lofty price category.
BTW, Magico's cannot be biamp'ed - only have one set of terminals by design.
NOTE: While I am an officer of BAAS, I am in no way affiliated with Magico or its agents. Nor do I own Magico's (but I'd like to).
Bob
Thanks for the post on the Magicos, Bob. Interesting that your impression is that they need lots of power. Harley's experience seems to parallel mine-- they sound great on the VAC Phi 300i, with 140 watts per side. I also have driven them with my CJ Premier 350 solid state; they also sound very good, but without the wonderful bloom of VAC KT88's. Granted I don't listen at a head-banging level, tho I do hit 94 db sometimes on Mahler or Wagner.
I was at those Magico Demos in Oakland as well and was decidely unimpressed with what I was hearing. YMMV of course, - driven with VAC gear, - in that room, - they were detailed, but did not cast a very impressive soundstage, instruments did not ring as true as they should've, and the system sound too "clinical" for my tastes.Again, just my opinion.
But, there isn't any way it was the VACs; perhaps the synergy with the VACs and that speaker, - but IMO, - the VACs are way too good amplification to blamed for the issues at those demos: which IMO, - were pretty huge....
In arenas he kills for a prize,
Wins a minute to add to his life.
But the sickness is drowned by cries for more,
Pray to God, make it quick, watch him fall.
Sorry to read that Sordidman was disappointed in the Magicos in Oakland played via the VAC amp. Mine sound great on my VAC Phi 300i, but nuttin' is perfect, and I would love to hear from Sordidman concerning what is his favorite speaker. But please, nothing in the Kharma, Rockport price range.
Hiya,
I can't tell you if the VAC Magico combo is a good one. I've heard the Magicos in a couple of situtations. They are pretty good speakers. I'm not trying to imply that they aren't. I'm just throwing out my take on what I heard. Perhaps it was the cables, room, or source, together with the VACs and the Magicos that didn't float. Again, - it wasn't bad. I also didn't like the Magicos with the Halcro when I've heard them either. And, - I never really liked Halcro with anything...
Perhaps VAC, Magico, and Audio Aero would've sounded amazing.
My take on the system was that although, again, just my opinion, - the jury's still out on the Magico, - it's not on the VAC. I've heard the VACs in too many situations to say that they are the problem. But, even the best amps need the right "match" to bring out their best.
I can name more than a few sub $10K speakers that I like. But, - yes, - most of my favorite speakers are in the range of the Magicos. I am very fond of Kharma, (true), Avalon, Verity Audio, VMPS, Dali, and several others....The Magicos are a pretty good speaker, from what I can tell so far, but most important is that I have a series of opinons formed by my experiences. Change some elements of those experiences, - and maybe the Magicos would come closer to the top of my list...
Cheers,
In arenas he kills for a prize,
Wins a minute to add to his life.
But the sickness is drowned by cries for more,
Pray to God, make it quick, watch him fall.
I take back my previous comment. Those are all nice speakers you mentioned and the Merlin would be well represented along side those mentioned (and even cheaper, I believe!).
Thanks for the thoughtful answer, Sordidman. I also have never liked Halcro amps with anything. The Avalons I remember having the most gorgeous midrange ever, but bass missing in action. That was in a short demo in a show room run by the most unpleasant owner/salesman I have ever encountered in NY. Right around the corner from Lyric, where the guys are great. Would love to hear Kharma, but, whew, the cost. Any further advice would be welcomed; I always read your posts with interest. Last night wish you could have experienced my old LP of Strauss Don Quixote, Szell/Fournier. Like hearing it for the first time; the detail, the different timbres of instruments, the air and deep soundstage. All via VPI Scoutmaster/Lyra Titan i to CJAct 2 Series 2 to VAC Phi 300i to Magico V3, on Stealth Indra and Nordost Odin cables.
Yes, I would LOVE to hear your rig, and be very curious to hear how the cables, VPI, and CJ system would compare with what I heard at the demos..
Have fun,
Cheers,
In arenas he kills for a prize,
Wins a minute to add to his life.
But the sickness is drowned by cries for more,
Pray to God, make it quick, watch him fall.
Probably the latest version of the Merlins (and probably with that ARS integrated amp and Cardas cables).
.
In arenas he kills for a prize,
Wins a minute to add to his life.
But the sickness is drowned by cries for more,
Pray to God, make it quick, watch him fall.
Still a clown.
.
In arenas he kills for a prize,
Wins a minute to add to his life.
But the sickness is drowned by cries for more,
Pray to God, make it quick, watch him fall.
Cool. I don't doubt in the least that the Magico's sound good in your system. They are very linear after all.
I draw my own conclusions solely on what I heard in that huge room on those two days. And, while at typically listen at much lower levels myself, I still use the ability to create 100-105 db (concert level) peaks as an evaluation criteria.
And we all know - and have been bitten by - the pitfalls of trying to extrapolate a home experience from a public (usually dealer) demo!
VTL makes great gear too, and your expeience with VAC proves to me that a very successful VTL-Magico system can be put together for many venues.
Bob
So sorry, but the electronics in the demo were VAC, not VTL! And the larger 300.1's were run in triode mode, which probably cuts their power to less than 200w per side.Also, we will soon hear more about Magico. The May issue will contain a feature article by Jason Serinus and full test by JA. Should make for very interesting reading (including measurements)!
Humbly,
Bob
Thank-you... guess I'll keep my 7's for a while longer. I've never heard the 8's in a flattering system/room. I was thinking of going to the Nova Utopia or Maxx2. Decisions... decisions...
Regards,
Bruce
To Bruce B-- If you can spring for the Maxx2 go for it. A friend in DC owns them and they are stupendous. It's almost as though Dave Wilson is a bit tired of the W/P line, and has put all his love and attention into the Maxx (and the Alexandria of course.) Hate to part company with Dave after good times with his W/P 3, 5.1, 6 and 7, but the 8 is tuned to a crowd wanting a harder, more analytical sound.
i heard the Magico V3 at CES, and have heard the MAXX II's many times including this past CES. i have also heard the WP8's a few times. i have not heard the Magico 6's....but that is the speaker the MM3's are typically compared to.
i think the Evolution Acoustics MM2's at $28k or the MM3's at $38k should be a 'must audition' in this price range.
when they first came out a year ago they were backordered a year, i'm not sure what the wait is now.
mikel
The San Francisco Bay Area Audiophile Society (BAAS) members recently had a chance to hear both the V3 and the Mini and speak with Alon Wolf. The response was so overwhelming that they had to set up a second demo. I went to the second demo in November. both were driven by V.A.C. amplification and Metronome digital front end. The V3 was driven by all top of the line equipment from both companies, while the mini was driving by less expensive equipment from the same companies.
About half of the attendees thought the V3 sounded better, and the other half liked the mini better. I'm in the second category. I felt the mini had a more seductive voice and draws you into the music more. Yeah, the V3 has better bass control, but that was about it. The mini simply presented a better overall musical experience.
This might have been due to the amplification as I thought the V3 was underpowered. We hear the amp clipping during one of the big passages from a demo disc somebody brought.
FrankC
Yes! The disc that had the system clipping was the magnificent Widor Mass Op 36 for choral and organ that I brought. See my comments at link below on the disc (not the demonstration).
There is no question that the Widor is a challenging disc, but I had no idea, and was surprised, it would cause *that* kind of problem for the V3. I brought the disc for the demonstration because yes, the organ is among the best and most powerfully recorded organ I have heard, but more relevant for a speaker evaluation was how it (the speaker) would project the glorious double choirs.
The problem (on that disc) I had was two-fold. 1) The low end of the organ was not nearly produced at the quality/quantity level that is on that disc; not even close with respect to quantity although the quality was good as low as it got. But the upper bass, too, failed to convey the majesty of a full size organ (as far as speakers are able to do so) 2) the choirs were clearly compressed, less open than what I am used too.
BUT I really think I have to look toward the amplification and not necessarily to the speakers for the problems on the Widor disc. I would have thought that the V.A.C. amplification at 160 per side would have been sufficient, but clearly not for that disc. It was interesting that they chose tubes for the demonstration since the designer (who was there) emphasized that they *never* use tube amplification as a part of the testing/evaulation process. My verdict is that the amplification ran out of gas on the Widor and is guilty as charged and the jury is still out of the V3 for demanding discs. On the other discs, including a beautiful Requiem, the V3 sounded very good but no where near the level as portrayed in Jonathan Valin "The Absolute Sound" review (mentioned below). In my room I am spoiled by a deeper, larger soundstage. The demo of the V3 (and the Mini) took place along the long wall of the room. Through the years I have usually obtained a more realistic sound stage along the short wall. But the V3 designer, himself, was the one who set up the demo
But were we not sitting next to each other (we hogged the sweet spot before they moved us around)? If so, did you also provide a disc for demonstration that fell short of your expectations? If I recall the disc did not convey the poignant emotion and warmth that you experience on your own system.
The review in the latest “Absolute Sound” goes absolutely ga ga over the V3, although the review does acknowledge that the low end while good does not compete with larger systems. The specs claim 32 Hz (no +/-) but I don’t think so. I bet it begins roll off below 45. "The Absolute Sound" does no measurements (at least they haven't in the past).
Also clearly the designer had a say in how or what technical aspects of the speaker was written up in "The Absolute Sound" review. Recall that the designer (Alon Wolff?) gave, what amounted to a "seminar" on all the technology that went into the V3 before the demonstration. (I think that should have been done *after* the demonstration). For example, great emphasis was placed on the V3 being a sealed system and not ported (read inferior)like most other systems today, how premium parts are used for the speaker (see below), and how the cabinet has a special design. Talk on the technical aspects of a speakers design is hardly unusual, but how "The Absolute Sound" review elevated these "technology* issues almost mirrored *exactly* what we heard at the demo in November fom the designer. Clearly the reviewer is a disciple, of sorts, of the designer and bought, wholesale, into most everything he said as being gosple for a "correctly" designed speaker. This, for me, really precluded any chance for an objective "review".
It looks like the price has taken a dramatic leap since the November demonstration. The price published by "The Absolute Sound" says $25,000. I thought it was slightly under $20,000 in November, but I'm not sure. During the demonstration the designer made a cost comparison of a part (crossover part I think) that he said was so much more costly (and superior) than the equivalent part in "a $28,000" speaker" (clearly the Watt Puppy 8). The point was that his much less expensive speaker had more costly parts than the $28,000 speaker. Well, $25,000 closes the gap considerably to the $28,000 Watt Puppy 8.
I only stayed for two or three discs for the Mini demo, so I can't comment on a comparison of the two.
Robert C. Lang
< < The Absolute Sound review may lack objectivity > >
No! I'm shocked -- shocked!
you never realize how demanding this disk is because you actually never heard the amount of deep bass it has. If you are listening to a ported speakers (Somehow I am sure you do), you are not hearing much below 40Hz (Best case scenario). It is amazing how so called “experience audiophiles” do not understand the difference between real low bass and a port hump at 60Hz-80Hz.
Did you read my comments below about the disc in question (Widor)? I recommend that you do. You will find that I know the Widor disc very well, which was the basis, my dissatisfaction of the Magico V3 (on that disc) during the demonstration.Further, my speakers are a sealed design that reaches to 15hz in a room that supports it. In fact, I have never owned a ported system. You may see the system description in Inmate Systems.
But even though my system is sealed I want to make it clear I do not buy into the sealed/infinite baffle, vs. ported vs. dipole vs. omni vs. planar vs. transmission line, vs. Walsh vs. variations on a theme, vs. the dozen other designs I did not mention. (Not to mention all the exotic enclosure, crossover, and driver materials and aircraft-grade this and military-grade that, not to mention hospital grade). I have heard both very bad and excellent sounding speakers from all kinds of combinations of design philosophy and materials, which is why I took with a grain of salt the Alon Wolf (V3 designer) preamble "seminar" on the "singular special" technology of the V3, all which was parroted in "The Absolute Sound". I have found that basic engineering and implementation, while I don't discount the ultimate importance of the technology, easily trumps all that.
But powerful low bass is only part of the equation in properly reproducing the Widor disc. Actually, the full force of the organs (two) and the choirs (two) is also/equally felt in the upper bass and the lower midrange, which with the very low bass (certainly below 30Hz) on the Widor disc, combine to make for a powerful, coherent experience, both heard and felt.
One more point on low bass. That was not the only problem, nor, ultimately, was it the *main* problem, in the V3 demonstration. The main problem was that the low end, especially during the final chord was *sustained*. It was not transient, like a bass drum, but instead included (along with the choirs) powerfully low bass (that is not necessarily loud; it's like a rip tide, you don't know it's there), but is held for about 30 continuous seconds. The amp clearly ran out of resources and it affected the reproduction from the treble on down.
Robert C. Lang
You have a sealed enclosure that go flat to 15Hz?? Interesting. You must be one of those who are rewriting the physic books. Or maybe it is a subwoofer with a cheap plate amp and EQ? Why don’t you tell us what it is? Let’s see where you are coming from?
Click on it to find everything you are seeking.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
OK, I get it. So this guy is comparing a full SACD surround system with what he calls 2 “large bass modules” driven by all together more then 2000 Watts!! to a 2 channel, give or take 100 watts tube driven, system. Very nice.
Wait a minute! So, now you see, that perhaps you erred in your assumptions when you said:*****you (meaning me) never realize how demanding this disk is because you actually never heard the amount of deep bass it has. If you are listening to a ported speakers (Somehow I am sure you do), you are not hearing much below 40Hz (Best case scenario). It is amazing how so called “experience audiophiles” do not understand the difference between real low bass and a port hump at 60Hz-80Hz.***
Every iota, every whit of your post was wrong.
I responded, without in any way taking a shot at you, even though that was clearly your intent in implying that I didn't understand "real bass" from a "port hump". What was that other than a not so subtle, broad brushed, and failed attempt to disparage ported designs and me because you thought wrongly that I had a ported speaker?
Then in your second post realizing you had it all wrong in your first post you attempted to mask and divert.
And now you're upset.
As far as me comparing my system to the V3 demonstration, everybody there was doing the same thing. So what? Remember it was FrankC (not me) who initially posted that the system (amp) clipped on that disc. We were at the same demo. Several listeners mentioned it (after the demo) and I sensed that Alon Wolff was a bit fuddled. FrankC was not comparing what he heard to my system being that he has not heard my system. He was comparing it to his on system and with other experiences. Clipping is clipping and has nothing to do with my system but to the system being demonstrated. Further, for your information I have heard any number of systems that have played that disc (two channel) without clipping. I am certain and FrankC agrees that the amp was the culprit (even though it was 160 watts) and not the V3.
And getting back to the music, if you did read my comments on the Widor CD or SACD and better yet, purchase it, I believe you will immediately appreciate why it can make for a wonderful and revealing disc to demonstrate speakers and systems.
By the way, as was pointed out, I am registered in the forum and my system description is listed. I invite you to do the same. I give you my firm assurance, I'll make it a vow, that I will not use the information as fuel for pot shots at you and your system as you have attempted to do to me.
Robert C. Lang
No I am not upset and clarifying where you are coming from was important. This post was originated buy a guy who just bought the V3. He asked to “trade enthusiasm”. Voicing your negative opinion on the speakers was uncalled for. Especially since most of your criticism had nothing to do with the speakers. BTW, I have bought a pair of V3 last Oct. The US MSRP was $22,800. In Jan 2008 it was raised to $25K.
I wonder how you got $17,900. Maybe you should have listen a bit closer to the “preamble seminar".
Instead of admitting that you were wrong in your faulty assumptions and conclusions you have now chosen to engage in contextomy.
So where am I coming from and why is it important?
What negative opinion of the V3? I do acknowledge that not praising a product can be construed as oblique criticism. I am keenly aware of that, which is why on at least a half dozen occasions in this thread I stated I believed that the *amp* was the culprit to the distortion heard at the demonstration I attended and *not* the speaker. In fact, I said in a response to your *negative* initial post (before you coyly revealed in your 4th post in the thread that you, too, were a V3 owner) “The amp clearly ran out of resources and it affected the reproduction from the treble on down”. How could I be more clear that it was the amp? Sorry, that I could not “praise” the speaker. Hopefully, that opportunity will come another day soon.
Further, Anthonyh, the author of the lead thread stated my comments were “interesting, thoughtful” and then agreed with my opinion critical of reviewers who buddy up with component designers. He was not defensive. So, what’s your problem?
But even if I was critical of the V3 (and I was not) so what!!!! Anthonyh was critical of the Wilson Puppy 8; he got rid of them. But you know, it never occurred to me that he was a jerk for being critical of the Wilsons. Because he wasn’t being a jerk!!! He was being honest and forthcoming (something you need to work on instead of engaging in contextomy). As far as I’m concerned AnthonyH comments are welcome and meaningful. And who among us here haven’t had gear dinged. Heck, I’m an adherent to SACD. You don’t think I don’t get dinged. I don’t subscribe to the use of expensive cables. You don’t think there are those around here that believe that to be decidedly mid-fi. I swear by a passive line stage. Believe me I have taken it on the chin for that sacrilegious behavior numerous times. You are inexperienced in these forums. You can’t be too thin skinned around here *especially* when you make flat out errors/insults and don’t own up to them.
And as far as me not “trading enthusiasms”, see above. But in addition, my response was the 4th or 5th down in the thread. It was not a response to the lead post. Again, you are inexperienced in these forums, that’s the way it is sometimes. A different post can take a thread in a completely different direction than the lead poster, who has only limited control at best, intended. But I do agree, we all should “keep our eye on the ball” with responses in addition to responding to the immediate post at hand.
But speaking of “trade enthusiasms” what about you and your expressed concern for Anthonyh? Now that you have artfully divulged, deeply buried at the bottom of the thread, that you are a V3 owner and have been so for several months, why not share your experiences? Anthonyh would appreciate it. But so would I.
And again “I invite you to register/describe your system. I give you my firm assurance, I'll make it a vow, that I will not use the information as fuel for pot shots at you and your system as you have attempted to do to me.”
Thank you for the clarification on the pricing. Good information.
Robert C. Lang
Thanks DanHaan for yr support; I would love to hear more of your experiences with the V3. For example, I found the bass a little oppressive when I put them exactly where the old Watt/Puppy 8's stood. Moving them forward four inches, four and a half feet from rear wall fixed it! Bass now tight and deeply satisfying. Mr. Lang's comments on them were most interesting, but I am puzzled that 150 watts wasn't enough to drive them. My VAC Phi 300i sounds glorious at 140 tube watts per channel, but if you are demanding over a hundred db from an organ record, clipping is likely to ensue. I don't recall ever clipping an amp, even many moons ago on my 35 watt Marantz 8B.
I must clarify that based on the demo and your own in-system experiences, it is clear that 150 watts *is* enough to drive the V3, and to satisfying levels, *almost* all the time. In fact, during the entire demo it was only on the Widor disc (the one that I brought) that I (others too) heard clipping. I heard clipping on two passages on the 4 minute track, but most notably at the end when there is *sustained* (very important) low frequency energy from the organs. The clipping there was unmistakable.I understand fully that music with organ is a niche within a niche within classical music which sadly has become (or becoming) a niche itself. I have a small but significant, to me, collection of organ music. And much of my musical taste centers around very demanding Romantic classical music, such as the Fischer conducted Mahler 2nd (that may well be the most demanding orchestral recording I have heard). And like most of us at the demo we place heavy emphasis (perhaps to a fault?) on the music we are most familiar with when we pass judgment on a component, or in my case, withhold judgment for a later audition.
To a large degree the Oakland demo validates, at least partially, that behavior. For example, the music lover next to me (who I thought was FrankC) brought a disc that I thought the speakers really nailed. It was music sung in an Asian language (can’t recall which one) that I thought was absolutely gorgeous and moving. But when I asked the person who brought the disc what he thought he was decidedly unmoved (comparing the song on his system). There was another gentleman, clearly very talented, who brought a recording of a jazz ensemble that he had recorded and produced himself. I thought it sounded it very good. But I really couldn't get a sense how he felt about it.
I see where Magico recommends amplifiers as high as 300 watts to drive the V3. I believe that additional 3 db increase (compared to a 150 watt amplifier) would provide the horses for the V3 to successfully navigate that most demanding organ passage of the Widor. Also, it may be an urban legend, but I have found that solid state amplification for the lower octaves is an audibly better fit, which is why I asked earlier could the V3 be bi-amped. A comprehensive and informative response by terros1 above confirmed that it cannot be bi-amped.
I do want to emphasize that, in my opinion, while the bass was (or is) not as extended as I require the quality of the V3 bass is exemplary. On the Widor disc this was quite apparent on the moderate to demanding passages of the piece. The large concrete demo room, I believe, helped make for an unfettered bass response with speakers that have quality bass to begin with. The V3 took full advantage.
By the way, if you have ever blown a tweeter *chances are* you may have clipped the amp.
Robert C. Lang
The Disk was Talvin Singh's songs from the Asian Underground....
:-)
Cheers Robert....
In arenas he kills for a prize,
Wins a minute to add to his life.
But the sickness is drowned by cries for more,
Pray to God, make it quick, watch him fall.
Interesting, thoughtful post by Robert C. Lang. I also mistrust reviews of products published alongside interviews with their designers. Wolf of course prefers infinite baffles, but Harley provides a very even-handed comparison of them versus reflex designs. I remember fondly acoustic suspension; my youth was spent in company with KLH Sixes. But my new Magico V3's have no problem with my new VAC Phi 300i, at 140 watts per channel. Maybe they would if I were a rock fan, but my db level rarely goes above 93 in my 18' by 20' living room.
*****I also mistrust reviews of products published alongside interviews with their designers*****
Agreed. Imagine the product designer being buddies or having a buddy like relationship with the reviewer. That's the feel that was conveyed during "The Absolute Sound" review and many "high-end" reviews conducted by other critics. Audiophiles scoff at the "Consumer Report" type reviews, and I agree they would not always be practical in high-end audio, but their review policy is to completely and totally distance themselves from the product maker, not only in not accepting ad dollars but in purchasing products off the shelf or having personal relationships. I would think that, if only on a limited basis, the high-end could at least point in that direction (OK I realize that's pie in the sky), at least the personal relationship factor.
Curious. Can the V3 be bi-amped?
Regarding the price of the V3, I’m sure that you being an early purchaser got a great deal. My notes from the November demonstration shows the price listed at $17,900. So, there has been a huge increase in just a few weeks. The V3 could not leap frog the Mini so its price also leaped.
It's kind of amusing in that I was listening to a Charles Osgood segment on the radio this morning. The subject was that the wine industry has learned that raising the price makes the wine taste better to the buyer. And they have the science to back it up. The higher price affects the brain more than the taste buds and that more wine of a particular variety can be sold at a higher price. Clearly, the high-end audio industry does not take a back seat when it comes to implementing that philosophy.
Robert C. Lang
There is much truth to what you are saying, Mr. Lang. I'm almost sorry to have to agree with you, because I respect many of the top reviewers. Whew--what an exhausting job, calculated to destroy your love of music! What bugs me is the product-of-the-month approach in which everything gets an unqualified rave, or in which you have to read between the lines to detect that the reviewer was not all that crazy about the product. One example; Wes Phillips is one of my favorites; enormously intelligent and fun to read, but I'm not the only Asylumer who drew the inference that he wasn't giving us his full take on the Watt/Puppy 8. It's no good when the reviews are virtually indistinguishable from the ads! No transducer is perfect; couldn't Harley find SOME aspect of the Magico V3 that was less than stellar? And I speak as a V3 new owner and lover.
February issue
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Thanks kavakidd for the reminder. Boy, I'm really losing it. That issue has been stashed in my bedroom closet for the past eleven months, and by the time I encountered the Magicos I had completely forgotten it, convinced as I was at that point that the Watt/Pupy 8 would be the last speaker I would ever buy.
Brand new, February 2008 feature - and glowing it is.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Thanks again kavakidd. Can't wait to see that issue! Another post tells me that guys at a demo in San Francisco were split between the Minis (that was the cover story you mentioned, TAS August '06) and my V3's. Valin probably did the new review. He went bananas over Kharma a year or so ago, but I've never heard them, and Andy Singer says forget 'em.
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