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70.143.2.130
always wanted a pair. they seem to marry the two things i love, KEF and JansZen (they us RTR, but lcose enough) ESL panels. i currently own KEF Calinda, KEF 104/2 and janszen Z-200. wouldn't this be the perfect culmination of both worlds? not to mention, I've always had a jonez for some IMF transmission lines and the transtatic uses the KEF B139 in a TL.anyway, anybody own or listen to these speakers? what's the difference between the transtatic I and II?
lastly, i always thought that the build quality of the the later AMT sucked. relatively mediocre cabinet materials and construction and crappy woofers (not the case with the KEF units). anyway, how do the materials/ build quality measure up to something like the IMF TLS80?
thanks,
Robby
Follow Ups:
In response to some of the posts to this thread,lets clear up
some misconceptions on the Transtatics.First if their quality
is questionable how is it that both a friend of mine and myself
have had them for 30 plus years with very minor problems ? In my
case a wire wound resistor opened up.(a one dollar item)The woofer
and mid range were transmission line loaded so there was acoustic
output in a radial/rear pattern about the speaker to help blend with
the RTR screens which do not fire back as one poster indicated but
fired to the front/side with a angled baffle that was integrated in the enclosure.Of the 3 persons I know with Transtatics,two of us tri-amped them with a electronic 3 way crossover.The amplifier used on
the woofers is important as the system required some serious power
as it was only about 82 db at 1 watt.Phase 400's and SAE's worked
well for the bottom end.(not later SAE's but the early dual mono
series built in the USA)There may have been some prototypes that were using a KEF T27 tweeter.These became a model known as the Translinear.The primary competition were the Infinity Servo-Statics
and if you want to discuss issues,ask about mid-range panel failure
on them.J.Gordon Holt actually did a article on replacements on
them in Stereophile (3/75).
For anyone who might care to check out the
staffing at ESS you might be surprised at who worked there and what
their future credentials would be.Set up,associated gear,and room
configuration all played out in how well these speakers performed
to a greater degree than a typical front firing dynamic speaker.The
primary issue was to get a woofer amp to control the bottom end and
a mid/treble amp that was sweet.(hard to do in the 70's)
with modded tweeters (T27). My friend mucked up mine, but for someone who knows, this can be remedied. I think big Ampzilla would sound good on these, as do the Threhold or big Levinsons in those days.
I had a pair of Transtatic Ones that were sent to Stereophile for review(the review was never done because the Heil speakers came out before the review was written). When I got them home they were the darkest speakers I ever heard which turned out to be because the KEF B110 drivers in both speakers were hooked up to ground(both hot & ground) so there was no mid-range. When this got fixed they were beter but laid back and still not as focused and defined as an IMF Studio(also a transmission line). I finally got lucky and traded them even up for a set of Rogers LS3/5a's.
This was a sort of hodge podge design with a speaker that began as a 'point source' and then switched to a dipole for the tweeter(the electostats shot out the back to a 45 degree reflector panel) and there is no way this sudden change in dispersion characteristics could ever be integrated.
so, it looks like I'm not missing out on much. i guess i will stick with my KEF Calinda and janszen Z-200 plus REL Q100 sub. i just thought the ESS would be fun.The Calindas are keepers, T27 tweeter/B200 mid/woofer and a passive B139 radiator. the Z-200 are very cool and are really fun in their huge soundstage. maybe not the greatest imaging, but their tonal qualities are insane. one of the few speakers i've heard that can capture a piano. the microdynamics are also very exciting. the little nuances you hear when you play something etheral like dead can dance are insane. you transported to another world.
they use a 130U 4 panel array that slides into the back of each cabinet. the woofer is a janszen B250 12" alnico woofer. the bass is okay, but not great. but tight and punchy plus it melds well with the ESLs.
k7niq, don't confuse the RTR panels with the janszen ones. rtr tried to up the spl capabilities of the original janszen design, which also increased distortion and faliure rate. the janszen panels are much more stout. it's their step-up trannies that blow ;-)see ya,
Robby
to continue development of the Janzen drivers and to improve their production quality?rw
try here:http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=speakers&n=235660&highlight=janszen+west+rtr&r=&session=
after having learned that last year in a discussion with Dr. West.Wasn't sure if you did. :)
rw
Yeah, they were RTR's, and the KEF midrange was mounted in a cardboard tube open at the back.
They were dark, dark, dark sounding, and bass was nothing to write home about, even with a 100 LB Bedini 200/200 welding machine driving them.Hey, for 100 bucks ....
Could always use em for firewood, or sell off the drivers ?
I forgot about the open back to the tube but since the tube was damped and probably crossed over at at least a couple of hundred herz there was probably little output out the back though it would act as a pressure release which might be a nicer loading for the B110.
thanks pappay and a7niq.ka7niq, as far as specifics, ii would gather you are saying that the bass was boomy, the mids were reticent and the highs were too prominent? the mids/highs i can deal with. the KEF B110 mid is not an overly sexy driver. i can see the ESLs being too "hot".
i wouldn't think the mids/highs would be colored, but a transmission line with a low current amp would get boomy. they also need to be raised off the floor.
if i can get a pair cheap, they would be fun to play with. at their heart is still the KEF B139, KEF B110 and RTR stats. those are not crappy drivers. the RTR do blow if you try and kick the crap out of them though. and they are not as robust as their janszen counterparts.
Robby
How can I say this nicely ?
They suck, and I owned em both.
They sucked way back when, and they certainly suck now, both versions.
Power hungry, bad driver blending, and colorations a plenty.
The Jantzen or RTR stat panel is probably in need of repair.
spean the 500 dollars on a pair of Infinity Primus 360's, some Silent Speakers, MMG Magnepans, etc.
IMHO, the old ESS Transtatics are good, real good for firewood!
hello robby, i started working at ess in 1975. by then the transtatics had been replaced by the amt 1. i never had a chance to hear the transtatic speaker but the employess who had always preferred the sound of that speaker to the new heil speaker. the amt 1 had many faults, some were addressed in later versions to a degree but the heil/woofer integration was never quite right. whether or not the newer heil versions were superior to the transtatic i don't know. here is a bit of trivia: electrostatic sound systems (ess) was started in a basement in midtown sacramento. what speaker do you think the owners of this new company wanted to emulate in sound quality? founder/owner phil coehlo told it was bozak speakers that sparked their interest in producing quality loudspeakers. my guess is that the transtatic was closer in tonal quality to bozak than the later ess heil speakers were.
Interesting. I thought ESS's original direction was to improve upon the Quad ESL-57 sound. Hence one of their first products, the ESS SuperQuad. You can see some pictures and read some information on that model from the link below.- John
that is what phil coehlo told me. i had brought my bozak symphonies into the soundroom for a comparison with ess products. phil walked in, took a look at them and said 'bozaks'? and then added that when he and his partners started producing loudspeakers they had bozak tone in mind. if my memory is right i believe he even had a pair at one time. never heard any of the transtatics so i have no idea whether they were bozak like or not. i do know the later heil models were totally different. a year later an employee friend of mine bought a pair of ess amt 6's - the big one's with the less bright heil drivers - he replaced the woofers added a better midrange and fooled around with the crossover. they ended up being very bozak like.
"a year later an employee friend of mine bought a pair of ess amt 6's - the big one's with the less bright heil drivers - he replaced the woofers added a better midrange and fooled around with the crossover. they ended up being very bozak like."
New woofers, new midrange, and changed crossover, that would leave only the tweeters and cabinet as the same. Those are far too many changes to draw any conclusions about what the original design was intended to sound like. Bozak like is what your friend changed his ESS to sound like, but isn't indicative that that's what ESS had intended.At any rate, I had a pair of Bozaks (B-302As) and I'd be surprised if the newer ESS models were intended to sound like them.
- John
bozak souind was the inspiration in starting the company according to phil coehlo.and that was way before the heil driver came into existence. clearly the heil era had nothing to do with bozak sound, two different animals entirely. as for the modified sixes the idea was not to sound like the original but to improve upon it. joe's modified 6's were such a vast improvement over the original you would not have wanted to listen to the original again. whatever he did his modified sixes had that bozak midrange. i must add that at that time my symphonies were somewhat modified themselves with a peerless tweeter to bring out a bit more highs. in an a/b test they sounded nearly identical. yeah, we were both shocked. as good as they both were neither of them came close to the transar.
How can I say this nicely ?
They suck, and I owned em both.
They sucked way back when, and they certainly suck now, both versions.
Power hungry, bad driver blending, and colorations a plenty.
The Jantzen or RTR stat panel is probably in need of repair.
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