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That sound good to me ?
Something that sounds warm and rich, like a Harbeth or Spendor, that would have a huge image, and be able to play loud ?
Follow Ups:
You need a pair of Spendor SP100s--superb, fun, musical speaker, and seriously revealing.Looks like you'll havce fun with your coming VR4s--that's one speaker I've always been interested in, too--the Gen III. SE.
I settled for the VR 4 JR's.
Albert says they will take out my modified Matrix 801's... we shall see...
I really like this quad 99 preamp you used to own, its quite good, and I just love the Tilt control.
I dont use it a whole lot, but its nice to be there.
Here is the response curve of Selah Audio's premiere $5k line array. I think the graph speaks for itself.http://www.selahaudio.com/excelfreq.html
Let's see how long the link stays up.
What's your problem?
This picture was measured by the Tact RCS 2.2X room correction system, with the Mic at approximately 12 feet from the speakers.As you can see, the highs aren't hardly rolled off and where they are down 3db or less at 20khz, most of us on AA can't hear that high. Only one male out of over 50 that have come to my house was able to hear 20khz.
Tom,That must be the FR of the Excelarray judging by the roll off at the top end.. I believe the roll off of the R45 ribbon is well documented and acknowledged by Rick as a compromise with that ribbon. I’m not speaking for Rick but I believe that’s why he chose to use the new Fountek JP 2.0 ribbons which have extremely flat and extended FR in his newest “Next Level” array designs.
Also, I’m told that it’s extremely difficult to measure a line array accurately due to the length of the lines so I would question trying to compare FR graphs of an array vs. a point source speaker design. I’m sure Rick or Jim can elaborate with the technical reasons.
BTW, I’ve seen the FR graphs from Rick’s latest Omegarry design and it is exceptionally flat and extended. Very, very sweet!
HTH
Jim
That must be the FR of the Excelarray judging by the roll off at the top end.. I believe the roll off of the R45 ribbon is well documented and acknowledged by Rick as a compromise with that ribbon. I’m not speaking for Rick but I believe that’s why he chose to use the new Fountek JP 2.0 ribbons which have extremely flat and extended FR in his newest “Next Level” array designs.Also, I’m told that it’s extremely difficult to measure a line array accurately due to the length of the lines so I would question trying to compare FR graphs of an array vs. a point source speaker design. I’m sure Rick or Jim can elaborate with the technical reasons.
BTW, I’ve seen the FR graphs from Rick’s latest Omegarry design and it is exceptionally flat and extended. Very, very sweet!
HTH
Jim
RICK: The response curve is partly inherent to the Newform but also due to the the proximity of the microphone. I now tend to measure arrays at a greater distance to get a more realistic picture of the response. One response curve really doesn't do justice to the sound of an array; in fact, I take many response curves at different angles when doing a design.
I don't know about the dip, but Rick Craig at Selah Audio is a couple of weeks (well, maybe 4) away from finishing a line array that should be able to meet most of your criteria. Be ready for a large cabinet, though.
I have heard nothing but good about it, and of course the ALpha LS from GR Research.
My friend is selling his speakers, and has been "eyeballing" both designs.
Because of the lower price, he has been leaning more towards the Linus array, only because he is in a huge room, and plans on using a big ass subwoofer, so he dont feel he should pay more for the better bass response of the GR Alpha LS array.
I Hope Rick plans on keeping the cost down ?
Here is my experiences with DIYIn 1980, I "got word" of an array using 6 Strathern Ribbon Drivers in a 3 2 1 array.
That is, from the bottom up, a row of 3 Stratherns, then a row of 2, Then 1 at the top, with the three stacked Stratherns forming abn inside "line"
Of course, you needed to have the "GURU" modify the Stratherns, at a cost of 100 dollars per driver.
So, the Stratherns cost 100 dollars each, plus 100 for mods, so i had 3200 dollars in driver costs alone!
Then, you needed to have a special equalizer made for the array,, to run the Stratherns full range.
I paid over 1000.00 for a shop to make a huge, curved baffle out of beautiful Oak.
they were beautiful, and had all the Seattle area talking, but sounded like shit.
I was out over 4 grand, noy counting the heaRtbreak, and my time.
I couldnt even sell off the Stratherns, since thay had been modified.
In my experience, if you build something, it had better work, and work good, or you are funked when you try and sell it.
I would like to see a line array for under 750 dollars, a Grand tops.
That way, if you figure in another 750 for cabinets, and it disappoints, you arent hurt too bad.
You sell it for 750 or so, and move on.
Lesson learned.
I made the mistake of "listening" to my buddies down in California, w/o hearing the Strathern Array first!
Ecidently, they either were deaf, or smoking too much of that good stuff they grow ?
I dont know!
Rick has a guy here in Hollywood, Florida, only a 6 hour drive.
Texas is really a reach from Florida to hear Dannys.
But... Edge Audio is down in Fort Myers, only 2 hours away.
But they are rumored to have the Epipihanys.
He would have to take out a second mortgage for those.
My friend, like me, has had just about everything, and he is really interested in these Line Arrays.
Me too, but I am moving to a new room, and hopefully, a good one.
I am about a year away, and just ordered Von Schweikert VR 4 JR's, and have 801's with Krell Bass alignment filter, and just might get the Northcreek crossovers for them.
But, I have been known to get crazy, and could easily sell my 801's, my horns, Magnepan MG 3A's and take the plunge.
I am an old audiophile, and if I hear something I like, I just gotta have it....
But, I gotta hear it first...
Don't worry too much. Rick will still offer the Linus 2 as far as I know. The Linus 2 was meant to be more of an entry level model with low price (less than $1000) yet with very good sonics. Rick's new line arrays are upscale in cost and feature top notch drivers--such as Seas Excel and Vifa XT woofers plus ribbon tweeters. More performance but more money for the new models. Contact him and ask about what he has going.
My friend is eyeballing it right now on the Selah web site!
Jim, someone is going to find some inexpensive, readily availiable drivers, that might not be great all alone, but when in an array, wouldnt "show their ass" as much.
Theres got to be some decent drivers out there that would work to get the price down even lower then the Linus 2 array ?
Back in the "old days" we got our cabinets from Brad Brooks at Woodstyle products, dont know if he is around anymore, but the Chinese will do ANYTHING, as long as one orders enough.
Someone is going to come out with a line array kit, w/cabinets too, for about 1500 dollars.
I think thats what Audiophiles want.
I know it could be done.
Acoustic Research was over in Orlando Florida, and I KNOW what they paid for their Tweeters from China.
China is whats happening right now, and If I were Danny, You, Rick, and the others in this 'Line Source Movement' , I would be looking real long sand hard at low cost Chinese Drivers and perhaps even the cabinets too ?
Someone is gonna do it, for around 1500 bucks retail, and it will revolutionize the speaker world.
Do not discount Chinese Tweeters!
They have learned well, Todd Jenkins the AR engineer, measured lots of them, and foud some quite good, for cheap.
My friend is eyeballing it right now on the Selah web site!
Jim, someone is going to find some inexpensive, readily availiable drivers, that might not be great all alone, but when in an array, wouldnt "show their ass" as much.
Theres got to be some decent drivers out there that would work to get the price down even lower then the Linus 2 array ?
Back in the "old days" we got our cabinets from Brad Brooks at Woodstyle products, dont know if he is around anymore, but the Chinese will do ANYTHING, as long as one orders enough.
Someone is going to come out with a line array kit, w/cabinets too, for about 1500 dollars.
I think thats what Audiophiles want.
I know it could be done.
Acoustic Research was over in Orlando Florida, and I KNOW what they paid for their Tweeters from China.
China is whats happening right now, and If I were Danny, You, Rick, and the others in this 'Line Source Movement' , I would be looking real long sand hard at low cost Chinese Drivers and perhaps even the cabinets too ?
Someone is gonna do it, for around 1500 bucks retail, and it will revolutionize the speaker world.
Do not discount Chinese Tweeters!
They have learned well, Todd Jenkins the AR engineer, measured lots of them, and foud some quite good, for cheap.RICK: Brad is still around; in fact, he's producing some cabinets right now that I designed :) I know there's been a great deal of controversy about exporting jobs to China and I hate to see good people lose their jobs. I live in North Carolina and the furniture industry here has taken a big hit. The largest loss of employment has been in the "case goods" manufacturers (solid wood / veneered products like dining tables, end tables,etc.). Many speaker manufacturers are using China for cabinets and assembled speakers. I've used a few for prototypes and the quality can be very good but sometimes their Q.C. is lacking. One thing to look for is that they often take a veneer and stain it to look like a more expensive wood. Many people wouldn't know the difference but a good buyer will.
I've read recently about two speaker manufacturers who have started importing their cabinets from China. Both claimed that the pricing wasn't much lower and they did it for reasons other than cost. One kept their retail prices the same and the other increased their prices for the more exotic veneers. I about fell out of my chair laughing because I know that the truth is these cabinets cost much less than comparable stateside cabinets. I'm not against making a profit but customers are getting gouged by these guys. Why not pass on some of the the savings to your customers?
I would love to do a line array kit with cabinets for $1,500 but I would rather concentrate on designing more advanced systems. I'm sure at some point you'll see an Asian company like Usher doing a low cost array that will create havoc for Nearfield Acoustics, Epiphany, Red Rose, and the other high dollar arrays. I know a stateside company proposed doing what you mentioned but given their proclivity for high profit margins you may end up with $3 tweeters and $4 woofers :) China is making some really good drivers though so your dream may not be that far off in the future.
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