In Reply to: Re: I cannot answer your question directly but.... posted by Rt on January 10, 2000 at 09:21:40:
i'm not nemo, but I might be able to answer your questions to a satisfactory level.... you can order the kits just about any way you want... the basic kit I believe comes with everything but the cabinets (you might have to provide some internal speaker wire for the cabinets too, but I'm not sure)... you supply them... everything else is included.... if you have some basic rudimentary woodworking skills (i.e. you can make a decent butt joint), then cabinets can be made on the cheap cause MDF is only like $20 a sheet... mine were overdone with dampening materials, triple front baffle, etc. but I just painted them a glossy black for a few bucks... still cheaper than buying the cabinets.... I am now going back and redoing the cabinets to make them more aesthetically pleasing (making them smaller, more compact, with a real wood mahogany veneer, staining them and polyurethane, etc... they are gonna look nice when they are done... still cheaper to do yourself....
if you want to be a tinkerer (I did), you can buy just the raw drivers and do the crossover yourself plus the cabinets... there are some people who can help with a crossover if you want to go that route.... john is always willing to answer questions too....
but if you really can't DIY, then the complete speaker might be the better route for you.....
as for differences between models, the R645 would be a touch more efficient, should go a little bit lower than the 5inch revelators, be a bit warmer and fuller, but a bit slower..the revelators would be quicker, more precise and accurate, and be able to handle a first order crossover and no need for impedence compensation (which the 8545s would likely need)... the crossover is likely more simplistic on the NHB45, but the ribbon would likely have to be padded down a touch with a resistor because it is a little too efficient (91dB) for the revelators inefficient nature...
good luck whatever way you go... keep us posted!!
…what is all this bashing of NFR speakers versus VMPS speakers? Both offer obvious differences between aesthetics and low end. I can only assume that VMPS might offer lower end reach (say the monitor 2), but perhaps at the loss of some definition as compared to NFR. I will admit that this is just a guess. To me, the question boils down to the point of are there distinguishable differences between the ribbon tweeters and implementation used by NFR and VMPS for similar price-point products to warrant the enthusiastic comments by “horn” for VMPS in posts above. Any experience between VMPS and NFR you care to elaborate on?
I agree with you... I have no idea what Horn's problem is. I don’t know if you saw the posts listed below. Read through both of them if you would. They should shed light on some of the issue.
Ribbons, Ribbons, Ribbons
I can’t comment on VMPS because I haven’t heard them. They indeed seem to make a good quality product that meets a ridiculously low price point just like newform. The only thing I have called into question with vmps is their desire to cross over at 450Hz. In order to do that you need a pretty big capacitor… the one thing I have noticed in building speakers with clayton is that caps make a very big impact on the sound, the amount of detail retrieval, soundstage, imaging, and smoothness or brittle brightness…. You really do get what you pay for in caps. It’s very cost prohibitive to use good caps with a crossover that low whereas it works out better for the newform crossing over higher… but I qualified my remark as a question saying, if there is a dramatic improvement in sound from crossing over that low, does it outweigh the drawback of using a larger, cheaper cap?? As I tried to say to Horn, it isn’t a question of which one is better, it’s a matter of finding something to suit your tastes in your application. Newform does that for me better than all the other speakers I have had in and out of my system over the years.
I just got off the phone with NFR. John Mayer (?) was quite friendly. He suggested that if I am not adept at woodworking or speaker building that I buy a B stock speaker with some minor surface damage. Comes at a discount close to what a kit would be after buying wood and materials. This might be tempting for me...
I would like to own the NFR speakers in rosewood. Seems like some of the black texture of the rosewood would compliment the speaker. I am thinking about simply buying an assembled B-stock speaker and then making a new box down the road when desired. NFR is not very open to making different finishes due to the black color of the ribbon. I'm sort of disappointed there. You've given me some ideas about the possibility of building my own boxes down the road, or even for my first kit. Still going back and forth.
As far as the NHB45 and the 645, John feels that they both offer comparable performance, though each has its tradeoffs. I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head in your description of the two with some similar things John said. My impression is that the NHT 45 set is for serious hobbyests and tinkerers and the design has not been perfected yet. I felt that John was saying that I would probably be happier with the 645 over the 45 and didn't give a clear endorsement of the 45 over the 645. Quite frankly, I'm not sure my ears would pick up major differences, other than low end, in my setup.
Has the sound of your 645s improved with heavier module and reinforcing. I am assuming that you did this.
sounds like the b-stock might be the way to go!!! a whole lot less hassle initially and you can work up to redoing the cabinets when you are better prepared. I never quite understood why more people don’t go for a B-stock option when buying speakers…. In my case, they are a great deal…. I am generally clutzy around them anyways, bumping the vacuum into them, banging into them occasionally and scratching them…. So what’s one more scratch or a slight discoloration?? I listen in the dark most of the time anyways…. Who cares what they look like as long as they sound good????
But before I go too far onto that end, let me back up and say that while I don’t care what the speakers look like, the significant other certainly does…. Thus the reason I am redoing my cabinets…. I just finished building a HUGE CD/DVD/VHS rack to hold the collections… finished it with a bombay mahogany stain that is to die for… the SO liked it so much, she has had me refinish the coffee table and end table with the same stain and polyurethane. They are about 20 years old, heavy duty solid oak. They look fabulous with the mahogany stain, deep, dark and very rich…. Works really well with the dark navy and some black in the room right now…. I really think the mahogany is going to look great with the ribbons as well. Rosewood would work really well too.. sounds like you have a great idea there.
Only one other note: I actually have a custom “kit” from newform. I use the 30inch ribbon with dual 5inch revelator midbasses on each side, wired in parallel. The efficiencies match up perfectly so that the ribbon doesn’t have to be padded down with a resistor, just one capacitor and one inductor. The reason I wanted to do my own cabinets is that I HATE box colorations. Most every speaker I have ever heard has suffered from them. I tried to completely eliminate them and create an acoustically dead cabinet. I much prefer the sound of them like this. Your preference may be different. I know clayton's is (the guy who basically built the speakers.... I was a learning novice at the time)...They are currently in a sealed box with a total Q of 0.59. combine that with the dead cabinets and bass transients are amazingly fast and accurate. BUUUUT, being the eternal tinkerer, I am going to try them vented to see if I can increase bass extension... unfortunately, I am afraid they are going to get boomy in the bass. I know they will go a lot lower than they do now sealed, whether that will be an improvement or not, we’ll see…..
Good luck with whatever you decide, keep us posted on what you do and how you like it!!
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