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Shady Lane

BEWARE of the "perfect" scam. A MUST READ!

71.237.139.164

I recently purchased a CD Player from a guy named Christopher Hunyh, who lives in Anaheim, CA. He has worked out the perfect scam.

He advertised on Audiogon with 30 positive feedbacks glowing about his honesty and fairness. So I felt confident in dealing with him. His e-mail replys to me were quick and confident.

After I paid for the CDP via PayPal I received "e-mail blackout". E-mails requesting shipping dates and tracking info. were met with stony silence for 10 days.

I instigated a dispute with PayPal and they e-mailed Mr. Hunyh. 2 days later I escalated the dispute to a CLAIM because he had not replied. A day after initiating the claim for "non-receipt of item" the seller then sent a reply to PayPal (not me) with a DHL tracking number. It showed that he sent the CDP the day after PayPal contacted him regarding my claim.

I received the CDP 2 days later and it was DOA. DOA!!!! I e-mailed the seller. Guess what? No reply.

I then contacted PayPal regarding the problem. Their response was that "since this case is for non-receipt and you have received the product this case has been closed. For future reference a claim can only be made once for a transaction. And the type of claim can't be changed either". They then referred me to a couple of Feberal Gvernment Fraud reporting websites.

So sorry. Goodbye.

Thank goodness I had the good sense to make the Paypal payment with my credit card rather than my bank account. Had I paid with my bank funds I'd be completely screwed. My credit card is investigating my complaint and I hope to get my money back. The unfortunate thing though is that the seller, Christopher Hunyh, will probably never have to pay for this fraud. Which is why I'm letting all of the Asylum know who he is.

One more piece of advice. Before buying something from someone on Audiogon be sure to get their full name and then do a search for it on the Asylum.

I can at least credit Audiogon for suspending the seller's (Vott99) Audiogon account. He had built up 30 positive feedback and at least that is no longer available to him. He'll have to open up another Audiogon username account. It will be his 3rd since I found out from PayPal that he had closed a previous account and that his Vott99 account was his second.

Follow Ups:

I had a similar experience... - RAS 09:11:27 06/01/07 (0)
I had a similar experience...DVD player arrived DOA. Seller wouldn't respond. I had used Paypal credit card and got the same response from them. Sellers could send you anything and Paypal won't pursue it, so I don't use Paypal anymore.
My money was eventually refunded by my credit card company, but I had to send the unit back to the guy and show proof I'd done so.

I've built up enough feedback that I feel comfortable asking for payment in advance, but for those without much feedback, if I'm buying, I'm very selective---it's getting dicey out there in audio land with the escalation of scammers.

I've been scammed by those with good feedback, too. For example (and I've posted this before here) Jesse Morales in CA (AKA Elistner @ Audiogon) lied to me and sold me expensive cables that weren't what he said they were and wouldn't refund my money or compensate me. His parner in crime was Ezra Hartsfield (AKA audioezra). Audiogon wouldn't let me post a negative feedback because by the time I had found out about the deception and sent the cables to the manufacturer for inspection, it had been over a month:
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=shady&n=2300&highlight=Jesse&r=&session=

So I guess, sadly, it's buyer beware out there. The old days of Audio Mart are gone.
Paypal is supposed to be an escrow service... - Yashu 08:24:15 06/01/07 (0)
The original idea was to have the money held until the item was recieved in good order... but I always wondered how they can call themselves an escrow service, yet allow your money to be stole before you get a working item, or any item at all.
RE: BEWARE of the "perfect" scam. A MUST READ! - middleground 04:16:11 06/01/07 (0)
Audiogon are cavalier, it's well known. The feedback thing is useless and the dispute thing, at best, a joke; at worst, a terrible misrepresentation.
RE: BEWARE of the "perfect" scam. A MUST READ! - Maprik 22:30:04 05/31/07 (3)
Thanks Guys.

I do feel like my credit card company will come through for me. This is obviously a case of fraud and PayPal's policy regarding only allowing one claim per transaction is almost criminal.

Christopher Hunyh's Audiogon account has been suspended so his AG username Vott99 will probably not come up anymore. He will probably have a new username so beware of the name. His PayPal username, which is still active, is cs32799@yahoo.com.

I do agree though that paying with a credit card us the safest form of payment. I also stay away from sellers who only accept money orders. Just too much risk since it's like sending cash. Unless the seller has A LOT of feedback or is a pretty well known person here in the Asylum.

I wish that someone else would start an online payment system that had better protections. Like holding funds in escrow until the buyer is satisfied with the transaction. That certainly puts the onus on the seller to be truthful.
- Credit card is safer, but not safe. An agreement to waive the right - Duilawyer 05:28:55 06/02/07 (0)
  to chargeback is SOMETIMES honored by the credit card company, and Paypal has such an illegal agreement in its terms. Most, if not all credit card processors say "You cannot ask customer to waive his right to chargeback". It will be interesting to see who wins.
- RE: BEWARE of the "perfect" scam. A MUST READ! - the roofman 05:38:05 06/01/07 (1)
  I am always suspicious of people with yahoo accounts. Most scammers seem to have a yahoo address . . . .I guess because it's so easy to open an account.
  
  Not all yahoo members are scammers but most scammers use yahoo, in my experience!
  - interesting. I think gmail is suspicious although I cannot - Duilawyer 06:55:33 06/07/07 (0)
    pinpoint why; it just seems scammers and gmail. BTW, the eBay scammer with phony Martin Logan and BW used gmail accounts for his "Contact me now, 100% safe, free shipping worldwide"" scams.
also - Green Lantern 20:36:46 05/31/07 (0)
ALWAYS go to the paypal website to see if your funds are actually in your acct.

It's very easy to photoshop a paypal 'funds transfered' via email.

"Live life as if you'll die tomorrow...
Learn life as if you'll live forever..." -Gandhi
Fockin' PayPal...... - Marc Bratton 20:22:20 05/31/07 (3)
Your experience is one of many reasons why I don't 'do' PayPal. Their response is pathetic. Of course, that makes me one of those awful people who do Postal Money orders only...which, as at least one poster has already pointed out, makes ME suspect in the eyes of some. Sigh...it's always a few bad apples that ruin it for everyone.
- Why MO? What's wrong with good ol' personal check, if you don't trust PayPal? N/T - carcass93 20:33:53 05/31/07 (2)
  N/T
  - RE: Why MO? What's wrong with good ol' personal check, if you don't trust PayPal? N/T - waldenpuddle 15:55:49 06/08/07 (0)
    If you pay with a POSTAL MONEY ORDER (not just any money order) then if they screw you, it is Mail Fraud...a Felony. Most people are not willing to risk a federal crime over something like that.
    
    Postal money orders are good protection in some cases.
  - US Postal Money Orders. Mail fraud. nt - Norm 06:49:10 06/01/07 (0)
    a
sadly, at the end of the day these are all civil matters... - danny kaey 19:46:43 05/31/07 (0)
the police will do squat; your only option is a small claims court suite...
your claim... - dave c 19:16:05 05/31/07 (0)
... was for non delivery of a working item.
It has still not been delivered.
According to Paypal he could send out jellybeans and they wouldn't care.
That must surely be based on people's unwillingness to start legal action against THEM for this farudulent claim they make that you are safeguarded.
almost as clever as William Maniscalco the "Third" aka hifimann, aka hue166 - danny kaey 18:52:44 05/31/07 (0)
and his fabeled Technics RS-1800
Audiogon is worthless - J.Mac 18:16:21 05/31/07 (3)
But we knew that already.

Well, it's good for getting ripped off by professionals.

One thing that never ceases to amaze me is that there are actually brick-and-mortar dealers that don't realize the harm it does to their credibility to be associated with Audiogon by doing business there.
- Disagree absolutely - unless you only buy new from brick-and-mortar dealers. - carcass93 19:02:39 05/31/07 (2)
  It's actually great place to buy gear - but we knew that already.
  
  There's no harm to anybody's credibility, as long as business is conducted honestly.
  
  Word "worthless" in this case assumes that there's something more "worthy" - which I'm not aware of. Unless, of course, you mean brick-and-mortar bloodsuckers with mentality and habits of used car dealers.
  - RE: Disagree absolutely - unless you only buy new from brick-and-mortar dealers. - Olde Bulldogge 22:28:10 12/31/08 (0)
    I agree with you 100%. AudiogoN has enabled me to put together a killer system for a fraction of it's retail price. I've also had success selling numerous items. I don't know why people get a bug in their ass about certain issues.
  - I agree. I wish PayPal was more concerned about abuse. I wish Audiogon was more concerned about abuse. But! nt - Norm 06:51:20 06/01/07 (0)
    a
And some motherf...ers there still insist on Money Order-only payments! - carcass93 17:29:54 05/31/07 (1)
Paying by a method that offers no recourse would in case like this mean that buyer is fucked out of his money, period.

I don't care what seller's feedback is. If, for instance, money order is the only method of payment accepted, I will NEVER deal with such person, no matter how good the deal is.
- silly - blackwax@mac.com 17:40:11 06/01/07 (0)
  A money order is safer because you have recourse. if someone uses the money order and you dont get what you purchased, they have committed wire fraud. that is not the case with paypal and paypal is not a bank and does not have to abide by banking laws. a money order or personal check is your safeft bet.
Exactly why you must use Paypal with credit card... - Sherlock 16:31:38 05/31/07 (1)
Its the only way to get your money back. You'll have to write a couple of strong letters to the credit card company, but you should prevail.
I got back 400.00 from an Ebay tube seller this way a couple of years ago. Make sure to do everything in writing and keep copies.

Good Luck
- RE: 2nd'd; I've had a couple of high $$ deals go sour - grinagog 21:04:03 05/31/07 (0)
  and went past their PAYPAL claim date ( 45 days from the transaction date ? ) but my Card company recovered the funds in both cases
  
  Grins
RE: BEWARE of the "perfect" scam. A MUST READ! - GBLPS 16:29:32 05/31/07 (0)
YES Thank you for the alert! What is his AG moniker?
Thanks for sharing. - AbeCollins 16:23:27 05/31/07 (0)
So sorry to hear that you are still working through this ordeal. Let us know how it ends. For the better, I hope.

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