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I wonder if there are any Elrog 300B users here, who can comment on whether they're still enjoying these tubes? They're really interesting, for lots of reasons, but there was some concern over their reliability and the manufacturer's handling of this.Are they still worth the entry price?
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Edits: 10/02/15Follow Ups:
True Audiophile in Portland, Oregon no longer handles Elrog but carries Takatsuki 300 tubes for $1995 a pair.
I think the audio community is for the better having Elrog now being sold by George at Tubes USA.
I have the 845"s and the are fabulous.
I've had a pair for around six months and love them. My amps are using the -76, 350v, 50mA, 5K operating point which runs them very conservatively. They are in daily use and haven't had a single issue.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Got mine last December. So far so good. Peter Qvortrup told me that, in their tests, the tube was 40-50% below 9W, but i can't verify that on my rig [AN(UK) Conqueror, Silver].
I'm impressed, but use the tubes sparingly now in favor of an older pair of WE300B.
These are the test results for my replacement tubes(said to better match my amplifier).
Eb=457 V.
IA=89 mA These numbers were said to be the test conditions.
Ec=93 V.
Plate current(Eb300V/Ec-58V)=48mA, Grid current=0.05mA
Plate current(Eb350V/Ec-74V)=41.8 mA
Jusbe,I bought my original pair of Elrog ER 300bs earlier this year. Up to that point I'd been using the Takatsuki and the EML XLS alternating happily for 3 years. both are excellent in my Coincident Frankenstein MK II amplifier. I found the Elrog to sound even better than these two reference tubes(which I preferred to my AVVT 32B SL, also excellent). The Elogs failed after about 4-5 months of regular use.
George of tubesusa.com(who sold me these tubes) was very responsive and promised he'd support me (he certainly did!). It was determined that the tubes weren't a good match given my amp's operational points/parameters(OP). The Elrog factory was very helpful in working with George. It was decided to send me replacement tubes that better matched my amplifier's OP. After about a 5 week waiting period I received the replacement tubes.
They actually sound "better" than the impressive sounding original pair. I've had them for a couple of months and so far, so good. Only time and usage will determine their reliability and longevity. In terms of sound quality they are truly superb in my amp/system. If they prove to be reliable, the Elrog will be amongst the very best output tube available IMHO. Listening to music is simply a fantastic experience with these tubes.
Charles.
Just curious but do you happen to know if Elrog posts and expected life expectancy of their 300B tubes? Someone told me that WE 300B should last 40,000 Hours which seems very high to me.
I use the 300B as a part of the dual driver stage to 845 output tubes in my Line Magnetic 219IA. So I wonder if Elrog would be a way to go as an upgrade.
I am impressed by the 219IA mostly in stock format (I changed the 12AX7s) but a lot of the pricier tube amps that I like more are using anything but entry level tubes so to be "fair" I kind of want to hear the 219IA with some of the better tubes just to see what kind of uptick in sound it can put out.
RGA, just out of curiosity, I was wondering which amps you prefer to your LM?
Warmest regards,
No Regrets
I think as an integrated the LM 219IA hangs with anything - I do like the Audio Note OTO for certain things more but the 219IA will play bigger and with more speakers so ultimately it wins.
My plan right now as an upgrade to the 219IA in stages will be either the Audio Note M3 or M6 and the Empress Siliver monoblocks. ($20-$30k for both depending on the preamp)
Now I may find things better than the 219IA but as it stands now to me the above separates is what I would find to be a worthwhile upgrade - I don't like spending more money for small moves - if you're going to take a hit trading up it better be worth it.
Thank you RGA for sharing your thoughts and comments. It sounds as though the LM is quite nice overall then. I think it might be worthwhile for me to keep my eyes peeled for a nice one on the used market for my secondary system.
Warmest regards,
No Regrets
40,000 hrs equals 4.65 years of constant use. I am not sure that the Elrog 300B tube has been around that long??
RGA,
Elrog has not offered any information in regard to longevity that I'm aware of. I hope it proves to be a long lasting reliable tube given the superb sound quality it has.
I hope the Elrogs work out. I have the Frankenstein also, but with Black Treasure tubes. I am curious if Coincident, or any other manufacturer for that matter, would honor the warranty if something happened to the amp with the Elrogs in them?
And sounds like a great result. Like many, I'd really like to see these tubes do well as they bring something new to the 300B table - and unlike anything else. I imagine there's a relatively large 300B user-base out there who might also be tempted to try them.
Glad they are even better than before. Let's hope they last.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
"It was determined that the tubes weren't a good match given my amp's operational points/parameters(OP). The Elrog factory was very helpful in working with George. It was decided to send me replacement tubes that better matched my amplifier's OP."
So were the new tubes different? I mean were they just selected Elrog 300B's or were they something else?
If you know, what was "wrong" with your amps operational points/parameters that the Elrog 300B didn't like?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
To the best of my ability it goes something like this. The Elrog(due to the thoriated filament) doesn't conform to all of the Western Electric standards. My amp is apparently designed to use tubes that meet W.E. 300b parameters. So I was told my amp ran the Elrog tubes too "hard" thus the premature failure. So the replacement Elrogs were matched to meet the demands of my particular amplifier. I understand that Elrog will ask buyers what amplifier they have and will provide tubes that are OP compatible. Someone from Elrog could certainly give a more satisfying explanation than I.
Sounds as though either:
a) there's some considerable variation in a production element or production stage that results in more or less durable tubes, and/or
b) there are still some quirks to be worked out.
Perhaps your new tubes are from an improved production run. It would be useful to know that manufacturing is now geared toward a more robust product for all those tubes. Still, it's good to know they are aware of this and are attending to it. Time for some good press to update their community of interest.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
The only way really to determine that is longevity reports over time. Let's revisit the issue in 5 years and see where things are at, I'd say. ;-)
No kidding! Speaking for myself I have no interest in being an early adopter. I recently had to renew my 300B supply and I'm delighted with the Emission Labs 300B's. Drop in replacements for WE's, sound great and are obviously built so as to put current Russian stuff to shame.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
It's my understanding that the thoriated filament is stressed pretty hard - normally such a filament requires a lot more power than a similarly-rated oxide filament. It's a major technical achievement to get cathode performance so close to the 300B level. So the Elrog differs from the WE 300B by having a bit higher plate resistance and a bit lower mu. They probably work in most 300B amps, but will have problems in amps that run "low and hot" - i.e. low voltage and high current (usually into a low impedance transformer).
Thanks for that explanation.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
I'm this "early adopter".
Got ER300B before specs were published, discovered that they have lower mu and higher plate R, as Paul mentioned above, and therefore lower power. Got tube failure, got screwed by "True Audiophile", much later got replacement pair direct from Erlog.
So, it was an adventure, but I have absolutely no regrets, ER300B in my opinion light years ahead of anything else in sound quality, that especially noticeable in complex music.
I'm seriously thinking about purchasing second pair as a backup.
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