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In Reply to: RE: Anyone upgrade the output transformers on their amps? posted by morricab on August 11, 2015 at 00:45:35
Audio Note is the easiest company to go and listen to and do direct comparisons - the M3, M5, M6, M8, M10 preamps are all exactly the same in internal design the difference is solely the quality of the internal parts and transformers - the M3.
Virtually all of their power amplifiers have 2-3+ versions and again the exact same design with the transformer changed to varying degrees of C-Core quality over the EI transformers found in level 3 and below. In Hong Kong - I can audition the M3 versus the M6 or both OTOs and the OTO is probably the easier amp to get a back to back audition. The new OTO with the C-Core is less veiled than my 12 year old OTO (but I have new tubes). It's pretty noticeable - now whether one is totally convinced the Sig is better depends on what you're after - the OTO original being a bit darker and warmer and more stereotypical "Tubey" sounding has some advantages and one of the HK dealers here in HK prefers it. More beauty than truth - the OTO Sig is more truth than Beauty. But to be fair I only heard the OTO sig once and it was fairly new (not broken in).
Follow Ups:
Yeah, I wanted to go hear the difference between a Meishu and Meishu Silver as well as an Oto SE and an Oto SE signature but I didn't get around to it.
I am on hold with my preamp upgrade for the moment because I am not sure it will deliver what I want and the cost is not inconsequential.
I may try upgrading the output transformers on my monos someday as well (they have EI at the moment but I would like to get double C on them someday).
I am not a huge fan of the Meishu. It's a good 300B amp but I'm not a fan of any 300B amps really - I like what it does well but to me all the ones I've heard (and I've heard the $20k Wavac) don't do it for me. I prefer the OTO even with its limitations. Albeit part of that is the value of the dollar aspect.
The M3 is level 3 and the jump to level 4 (C-Cores) in the M6 is basically a doubling of the price.
I am currently debating the M3 and the M6 with myself - When I get some time I want to A/B them. Forget the Meishu - get the M3 and Empress monoblocks and that combo might be around the same price or less than the top Meishu Silver. The basic Meishu is probably the better deal since it's not like any of the competition is exactly using silver, or black gates in their $8kish amps. And to me this combo is quite a bit better than the Meishu Silver even if you don't get the C-Cores. An Separates tend to sound better anyway - the OTO Sig probably has the separate versions and it doesn't cost all that much more money.
I also wonder about an Black Gate upgraded M3 to move it close to the M6 without the huge transformer costs - An M3 Sig - oh no - I'm suggesting yet another product for Audio Note. LOL
Speaking of 300B amps, have you heard the Line Magnetic LM210? It looks interesting. A 300B amp doesn't need to sound overly lush and a bit slow though...my JJ322 is really not at all like that, it is quick, resolved and with really great bass (must be the big double C cores on the output). Maybe for a 300B an all tube power supply is not the best because my JJ has an all solid state power supply. One of the best, supposedly, 300B amps in the world is the Ancient Audio Reference monos and they too go all SS for the power supply as the designer experimented heavily with both types.
I was looking seriously at an LM219ia, like you have, but I got a pair of Wall Audio M50 PSET amps instead, which I felt were more transparent overall and a bit less warm but still rather silky through the mids and highs.
I prefer 300B as separates - there is a wealthy audiophile in Hong Kong where I heard his Kegons and a Shindo Petrus (Shindo's best preamp) and that 300B system was elite - top 5 experience ever.
Integrated amps are typically let down by their preamp stage and by sharing a power supply. I auditioned an M2 preamp and Quest Silver monoblocks that beat up on the Meishu as well. I get that some people want a one box solution but when the one box is gigantic it makes more sense to have two smaller boxes.
As a reviewer I am pretty much willing to try anything. But as a consumer - I am more inclined to buy Audio Note because I know I will get damn near what I pay for it 10 years from now.
With all the commentary about AN prices above - and the prices being higher - people always seem to miss that yes you may pay $1000 more for an Audio Note now but in 10 years you may sell it for $2000 more than the competing product that you were salivating over being $1,000 less. In the end the AN likely costs you less.
As good as the LM 219IA is that amp sells for $7500US - the OTO Phono SE Sig is about $6500 or something. In 10 years you will get double AT LEAST what you will get for the 219IA on the second hand market. More if Line Magnetic ever drops the 219IA - as is the custom of many Chinese brands that often drop products fairly quickly. I am hoping LM is different but they're already doing the usual undercut their western dealers and selling through an online store for 40% less.
The 219IA sold me mainly on the fact that like the Jinro it could be used as a dual mono power amp (it is FAR FAR better as a power amp than an integrated - and it's already a pretty fine integrated). Poor man's Jinro.
I was impressed by the transparency of the 219IA with three preamps the sound was astonishingly different with all three preamps which is exactly what you want in a power amp. The AN's don't offer this preamp in feature so they're less flexible with upgrades.
I find the Meishu sounds a little "over there" - it's fast and open enough - I just don't think it's as well suited to the E - I suspect as can easily be heard here that the K or J is a better match for it. Still the separates version is going to sound better IMO
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