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In Reply to: RE: I assume from you speaker preference that you won't be playing.... posted by Ivan303 on May 18, 2015 at 21:00:25
That's right. This system is going to have it's own room and is for the music that it is suited to - which is 90% of what we listen to. In the adjoining room we have our old surround HT system built around the Klipsch KT-LCR THX with Rotel 1075/1096 that plays anything and loudly but has it's midfi limitations. I get people all the time telling me that it's the best they've heard. It will be fun to play something like Eva Cassidy on the old system and then move them into the next room and play it on the 45/Rethm system. Kind of like a Mini Cooper might be the most fun car you've ever driven and then you get behind the wheel of a WRX. Seems more applicable than to use Porsche or Ferrari in the analogy, I mean I'm not buying Shindo or Kondo.
So....the best 45 amp I can afford?
In searching I have found exactly 2 from active builders and then the nebulous possibility of unknown factor sonic_oli.
The first is Tube Audio Lab as I have mentioned in other posts. I corresponded with Min a while back and he at this point seems like the best choice by a mile. His prices are more than reasonable with a list of upgrades that could take it outside of the $WAF$. He also builds several varieties of preamps and suggested the JEL linestage.
The other one is Triode Labs up in Canada. They build a mono block 45.
What else should be on my list?
Thank you very much.
Follow Ups:
Yamamoto A-08S 45 Stereo amp and Audionote (UK) Paladin, Silver or Silver Signature are the only ones I can think of right now. JAC music is a Yamamoto distributor and you can check the AN site for the dealer closest to you. Another source might be Fi Audio 2A3-45 monos,but i was recently told that Don Garber had retired.If you use Tube Audio Lab, don't skimp on output transformers even if it adds another 50-100% to the price of his base amp. Think Hashimoto or even Audio Note double C-Cores.
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
Edits: 05/19/15
Have it directly from Don. Very busy. Long wait for his gear (wonderful) gear.
Regards
NT
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
Maybe mistaken for Don Allen, who is the one that retired..... No longer builds or updates amplifiers/products. Moved to Orlando, FL.
Todd, I think you're right. I am very glad to hear Don is still making amps.
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
Spoke to him several months ago and he didn't mention retiring, but then again I didn't ask...
No, I got it third hand. I didn't follow up.
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
The stock OPT is Electra Print. I'm new enough to this that while I have heard of Hashimoto I hadn't heard of Electra Print. I looked into it and they are considered good stuff. I don't know if it's *the* good stuff. If the differences are stark that is one thing but I am one who has no intention of chasing expensive incremental improvement. I would have no problem paying for Hashimoto or AN or James parts if the diference warrants it. Yet I have no way of checking this out except through the anecdotal opinions of others. I don't need *name* stuff to impress anyone. That is the job of the sound. None of my friends have ever heard anything like what this system will be. I still want the best I can afford with a healthy dose of practicality.
Virtually all of Min's Korneff clones (and all of the ones built by Korneff) have used electraprint OPTs. There must be a reason for this. Ask Min.Re. Drlowmu's suggestion to build a 2 stage (direct coupled) 45, I'd agree with this, but only because I have a pair of Fi monoblocks that can use both the 2A3 and the 45 just by changing the rectifier (although this setup is slightly less optimized for the 45, but close, according to Don Garber). One of the nice things about this design, is that the driver stage is very simple: just a single triode, on the order of one-half a 12AX7. There's an old review of the Fi 2A3/45 monos on the net by Jeff Day, if you want to see how clean and simple the build is inside the amp, not many parts!
I do know that Don went from Magnequest OPTs to Hashimotos (don't know the specs) after I received mine. Don also told me that Magnequest all silver OPTs are also lovely on this amp: $6,000 for two!
AN double C-core Opts are insanely expensive, but i have enjoyed them on two Audio Note 300B stereo amps. On AN equipment, they make a huge difference compared to the standard EI OPTs - more detail, better inner resolution, better defined soundstage, cleaner top end and tighter on the bottom. I've only used the entry-level, copper C-cores (Hi-B).
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
Edits: 05/20/15
I've been corresponding with Min simultaneously with this thread. I just received his take on this question which is that spending the money on the Hashimoto will not necessarily create a better sounding amplifier. The difference does not justify the price differential. That if I wanted to tweek the sound towards more precision/resolution Mundorf caps would do that but that he prefers the more earthy natural sound of the Jensens. He also said that the amp he would build for me would the same as what he would build for himself.
I ask him about the Korneff 76 preamp and he said he had serviced a Korneff preamp and that he couldn't get the noise down to an acceptable level. He thinks the JEL linestage is all round the better choice.
Thank you all for helping me find clarity.
Ultimately I have trust someone and I trust Min.
I definitely will get the best output transformer I can afford for my build. If you have a scope, you can easily tell well made output transformer does have better frequency responses and low distortion.
I disagree, the output transformer could almost be INexpensive.With a proper design before the outputs, which importantly - less than 5% of the SE existing amps do, the less expensive output transformered amps will creme, totally creme, the fancy and costly output transformered amps !!
Now, if you are talking about the "other 95% " of amps, with just a typical mediocre average build, a more expensive output is a very INDIRECT way to get "slightly" better sound. But WHO can stomach listening to such mediocrity in design and execution of the circuitry that preceeds the transformer, well....not I !!!
In the end, we all listen to a modulated power supply.
How good is its design and performance ??
Jeff Medwin
Edits: 07/12/15
Good point.
How about a B+ supply operating at 300 kilohertz, rectified and filtered using only ferrite chokes. Electrolytic caps do not function at these speeds so cannot be used. Film and foil, small values used for wave shaping thus allowing the ferrites to swallow the noise.
The final cap can be an MKP1840 series, 800 volt, not more than 50UF. Ten microfarad works well.
What this does to a 45 or 2A3 is to goose the performance to unheard of levels especially the speed and the dynamics. The increase in performance is down to the fact that at 50 hertz, the final cap is delivering power for nominally 18 milliseconds when the diodes are not conducting. Thus you are listing to what the cap does using its internal chemistry. In the case of high speed supplies, this timing is a microsecond or two.
Coloration? the ferrites are all operating in the megahertz range and ignore the audio that sneaks through.
Regards john
mrubey,
Give Jack Elliano ( Electra-print )a call about your transformer needs. You have options of copper, partial silver, solid silver secondary if you wish and for less money than others. He can also answer any questions and give suggestions on circuits etc. I have several SET mono block amps and I am very happy with them. His transformers are top notch !!!
I had Min build a Korneff 45 clone for me this Winter. It uses the the Electra Print OPT (4, 8 , 16 ohm taps) and I asked him to install the best components based on cost and performance. I did not go into a lot of details on the component brands, etc, since I am a complete novice about parts selection.
I am really pleased with the results. Fantastic sounding. I have not heard a lot of comparison 45 amps, but Min made a definite keeper for me. Trust him, he will build a great amp for you. Right now, I'm having a lot of fun trying different power tubes. My favorites so far: Cunningham cx345 and EML Mesh Plates. This amp is so resolving and quiet that hearing the differences between power tubes is quite easy.
Fantastic Trackball02
thank you!
Trackballs story mimics pretty much everything I've read about Mins work.
You can get enjoyable, interesting sound out of SETs with little difficulty; a great SET amp is something different and rare(er).Based on what I have seen and experienced of Min's builds, I'd be talking to Min about layout and parts selection:
> Allowing a little extra chassis space so components can be well laid out and mounted.
> I'd especially like to see grommets on the (roughly finished) chassis holes used for routing wires.
> Use decent tube sockets - not those horrible ceramic Chinese things I sometimes see.
> Keep the input wiring away from the PSU wires and transformer.
> Don't use electrolytic caps in critical areas... almost anywhere (if possible).
If he is using a bus for 0v signal grounding in your amp, ask him to brush-up on the order things need to be attached to the bus. There is more, but those few things should help ensure some reliability and reasonable noise levels in most systems.
Of course, these are just my opinions and suggestions.
Regards,
91.
Edits: 05/21/15
Each amp has its own peculiarities. However, in SET i've never heard of coupling caps making a bigger difference than OPTs.
For high-end caps I am partial to Audio Note Copper foil in oil. For less expensive coupling caps, I favor the Russian K-40s, bypassed with another .01uf Russian, which I also have used (but not in SET - for no particular reason, by the way).
Learn to solder!
Also, make sure to speak with him about what caps he uses for the PS caps and the cathode bypass cap. Film caps are generally preferred.
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
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