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In Reply to: RE: the amp carries more signifigance than the speaker? er, respectfully disagree, indeed; the room trumps all~nT posted by charles1dad on March 30, 2015 at 20:29:44
For me the biggest surprise was that not too long ago I went back from SET and got a nice PP Class A triode amp (VAC 30/30). It sounded great, deep tuneful bass, holographic mids, extended but delicate highs...
Except it was somehow lacking the top to bottom coherence and flow I get from my SETs. Difficult to explain but it was almost like I could hear the handoff between tubes. I had a much stronger effect in the past with a pair of OTL monoblocks. There the transparency was unsurpassed BUT things didn't quite gel together like when you listen live. SET gets closer to this (good SETs at least).
After living with SETs for the last 10 years I can really hear what is different even with great PP amps and I have to say that the coherence has me hooked above all else (the tone of the VAC is wonderful so it is not that).
Follow Ups:
I always thought coherence had more to do with speakers. For example, the more drivers, the easier it may be to get the bass, the mids and the highs to sound very good, but bringing them all together and getting a wide 3-D soundstage is much, much harder.
This is one reason that, for all its limitations, the LS3/5A sounds so good to me with 300B SET amplifiers, of which I have owned two by Audio Note (UK).
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
I have found that it has almost as much to do with the amps.
I once demoed a pair of speakers from Sonics (Allegria) that had three modules each with a different kind of driver (metal cone driver, SEas magnessium mid and ribbon tweeter) at a guys place (not in a shop). I had brought with me a KR Audio VA350i and the guy had a Gamut preamp and Gamut amplifier (D200 something or other). With his amp combo, the sound was not coherent and each driver was clearly heard doing its own thing in it's own bubble. I found this disconcerting and difficult to listen to.
After a while we put on the KR Audio and suddenly it was like someone took out a welding torch and welded those drivers together into a whole sounding speaker. It was not a subtle effect. I realized that there was a pretty good speaker there dying to get out that was simply not realized with the Gamut amps. It was one of the most striking examples but I have heard it more subtly many other times.
I always think amps are the weakest and sorriest lot in all of the audio chain, from my experiences.
Jeff Medwin
I have come to see them as a clear weak link as well; however, one must never forget that for a turntable to generate sound one must have some kind of preamplifier stage + equalization to get a usable sound and a cd player or DAC must have an analog preamplifier on the end to get a usable sound as well. In this sense the source is just as important.
I have found a world class phonostage and will stick with it probably until I die...it just makes all analog sound...better than other phonostages I have tried and/or heard.
As for DACs, I have two I really like and one has been modded by a Lampizator tube output stage but has what I think is the best DAC modules ever put out for OEM use (UltraAnalog 20 bit modules).
One of the most lasting impressions I ever got was when I heard a pair of Odeon Nr. 32 speakers (great stuff) driven by an all Einstein all tube system (they also have hybrids which are not as good). It was scary real with the best recordings and easily the best sound at that show.
The next year was the same system...except the speakers, which this time were Living Voice OBX-R2s. The sound...was exceptionally good again and best sound at the show. It was not QUITE as good as with the Odeons (those speakers are really pretty awesome) but considering how conventional the LVs are for the most part it was a real lesson in the source, preamp and amp importance to me.
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