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In Reply to: RE: Al, Gusser, andy posted by drlowmu on December 09, 2014 at 12:03:22
How about you cite some theory as to this "skewing" you drone on about.
How much delay are we talking here? And how does a filtered DC power supply using two rectifier tubes cause this skewing in the audio path? Even if there was significant skewing of the rectifier action, how does this get through the filter network?
And furthermore if there was skewing, let's call it phase shift, between the two rectifiers, wouldn't that actually be beneficial? Look at three phase DC power supplies. One of the chief benefits is the need for less filter capacitance. A power supply with more than one AC phase would be quieter using the same filter network as a single phase AC source.
So tell us how all this actually works since you seem to be the only person who understands it. You claim to easily hear it, but how do you know it's due to the causes you cite unless you have some understanding of the physics at work?
Follow Ups:
Honestly Gusser, I don't HAVE to understand why, the physics behind why something works or doesn't work. All I need to do is find out what does work - and doesn't work - to build the amp to my liking.
Even more perplexing to you will be the following details, the "skewed audio input stage is fully shunt regulated, drawing about 16 times more current in the shunt-to-ground, than the tube's idle current, yet it is HEARD as a skew, and certainly NOT just by me alone !! Ripple on the decoupled input stage, shunt regulated, is under 2 mVAC, sometimes under 1 mVAC. Bear in mind, I am discussing a single triode, mu of 100.
Jeff Medwin
You have said before using paralleled tubes causes a timing difference that is audible. So how do you know that?There are a plethora of legitimate technical reasons why paralleled tubes sound different. I too have heard it myself. But rather than research and intelligently discuss the phenomenon, you want to make up silly cowboy physics explanations for that you don't understand.
And extrapolating it to the rectifier tube is just more cowboy logic.
Edits: 12/09/14
I know its audible because I have a high mu driver in my input stage, and the power transformer and tube socket capability to run one to four rectifier tubes, in my DC SE amp.As I very clearly stated right above, I don't care what the reason is, nor do I know what the reason is.
Whats this cowboy stuff Gusser?? I grew up in Bucks County, PA and was a stockbroker for a few decades in Beverly Hills, CA. I have never fired one round from a gun.
Jeff Medwin
Edits: 12/09/14
"As I very clearly stated right above, I don't care what the reason is, nor do I know what the reason is."But that is precisely the problem. If you would just say it like that, it would be OK. But then you go on to make absurd claims, like "timing errors between paralleled tubes," or claiming that wires that you criticise for being too thin are OK "if they are in a magnetic field," or whatever, where it becomes completely obvious that you are trying to invoke pseudo-scientific "explanations" for things of which you have no basic understanding.
And then, to top it off, you throw in some entirely groundless attacks on people who do have an understanding of the basic physical principles that govern the workings of electronic devices.
As an amateur builder, you probably have some useful ideas that you could share with others. But please don't try to teach real electrical engineers about things that they understand far better than you do.
Chris
PS: Let me add that I am not an EE myself. But there are quite a few on this forum. And as a physicist, I think I can tell when someone is just BS-ing.
Edits: 12/09/14 12/09/14
You have to hear Jeff's amps to understand it. Being educated only means you are mis-informed.
Our old family room Motorola TV console, 1964-1970, had a 6AQ5 ,or perhaps it was a 6V6 SE output stage. (It's been over 40 years since I took it apart!) And it also had an 8in woofer with a 3in tweeter using a single capacitor crossover. Not bad for a TV.So yeah, I do know what JM's amps sound like!
Just the thing for his old Lawrence Welk collections!
Edits: 12/09/14
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