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In Reply to: RE: Maxing stock chokes and DHT filament transformers posted by drlowmu on December 06, 2014 at 07:25:48
Then how does the orchestra TRAVERSE the wire inside the choke ? Remember the coil of wire inside a choke , by it's very nature , has a transfer function similar to the effect that rifling in a gun barrel has on a bullet . This makes the TRANSFERRED electrons spin introducing timing errors into the musical signal . Therefore it is important to have the turns on your 2A3 filament transformer wound the other direction so there is cancellation of spin leaving the dynamic presentation of the musical signal intact . This makes sense to me but what about you ? Have you applied this to your amplifiers and heard the benefits ? I thought you were able to think out of the box and would have REALISED this already ? I am so disapointed in you...
Al
Follow Ups:
Hi Al,
Spinning of electrons...pulling my leg. Obfuscating the good modification work being done !!!
Don't get disapointed, I have been doing custom small mass chokes since 2007, and I have been making balanced DHT filament transformers since 2008, as soon as I realized it was a loss area in SE amps. After all, in SE the whole supply is in the path of the audio.
Back to the question: Is a 22 AWG wire suitable for transfer of B+, all the B+, in a L1 position in the amp, or, would a 12 AWG lead, with silver content, do the music more justice? Can the 22 AWG wire play back without loss of either band width, or dynamic contrasting as in the original musical event, the 108 piece Orchestra, and Organ, and 250 piece choir, all "going" at once???
Or, will the 22 AWG wire in the SE amp B+ runs cause the playback to sound "whimpy, frequency selective, out-of-time, dynamically constricted, etc" ??
BTW, I have modified my L1 chokes to use 12 AWG lead in and lead out wiring, rather than the 10 AWG I first posted. Dealer's choice there.
If you guys can't conceive what I am designing for, I can't really help you, or spoon-feed you any more than I have. Continue on in your merrie ways building amps, who knows, maybe our amps will meet in a direct A-B session ....one day in the future !!
Jeff Medwin
If those abortions are what your company is all about , I think you may hit the wall sometime soon... I have no issues about 22AWG wire , in fact I extensively use and recommend 23AWG 1/0.6 silver plated copper in Teflon for all signal and HT wiring . It's nice to use and the insulation doesn't shrink back or burn . It's most certainly thicker than whats in your transformers , chokes and output transformers , not forgetting 'Fraker' filters . The orchestra gets through easily , as for bandwidth , this is easily quantifiable , but you never provides figures so you only have anecdotal evidence .
There is a reason that manufacturers don't use your logic , it's because you are a crackpot ;)
Do you also apply silly wire to heater connections ?
Al
"Back to the question: Is a 22 AWG wire suitable for transfer of B+, all the B+, in a L1 position in the amp, or, would a 12 AWG lead, with silver content, do the music more justice? Can the 22 AWG wire play back without loss of either band width, or dynamic contrasting as in the original musical event, the 108 piece Orchestra, and Organ, and 250 piece choir, all "going" at once???"
Two points:
1) The audio signal does not, thankfully, have to pass through the choke. It is running almost entirely through the final smoothing capacitor in the power supply.
2) The result of your choke mutilations is that instead of running the B+ through, say, 100 feet of 22 AWG wire, it is running instead through 99 feet and 8 inches of 22 AWG wire. The change is totally inconsequential.
There are so many much more worthwhile things to experiment with in audio amplifier design. To be fixated on such trifling absurdities seems like such a waste.
Chris
Hi Chris,
Nice post.
I challenge your statement of lead replacement being inconsequential.
Myself, and two other mature, experienced audiophiles, have replaced thin choke leads and easily heard a better music presentation. Should we three people just DENY what we heard, and accept your "theory", OR, should we put credence in what we hear, the end result, and respectfully suggest to you, and others, your theory is not complete ??
We have actually done this "silly" work, and listened to the results. How much attention should I pay to you, who has never tried and has zero practical experience in this very specific area? Could you be wrong in your theory, could it be incomplete, by any chance ?
Sincerely,
Jeff Medwin
"Myself, and two other mature, experienced audiophiles, have replaced thin choke leads and easily heard a better music presentation. Should we three people just DENY what we heard, and accept your "theory", OR, should we put credence in what we hear, the end result, and respectfully suggest to you, and others, your theory is not complete ??"
I would be willing to bet $100 that in a properly conducted double-blind test, you would be unable to demonstrate any statistically-meaningful ability to discriminate between the sound of the original and the modified choke.
Chris
I would be interested in seeing a couple of scope shots or some sort of distortion analysis of 22awg vs 10awg on both ends of the wire that would show some difference in application.I don't think it is possible to hear a DC voltage drop of 0.00042% in the 22AWG vs the 0.000027% in the 10AWG. EDIT: (Based on 12" lengths, 450V, 60mA)
The 10AWG does have more zeros after the decimal, I will give him that. :p
Edits: 12/07/14
You should not assume a scope or any distortion analyzer in your laboratory can capture the event.
Silliness!
Our ears - brain can !!! Not silly at all.
Jeff
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