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In Reply to: RE: Is this 300b too good to be true? posted by rebbi on November 27, 2014 at 17:41:59
RC,
First, nice Zen tag line. ;-)
Second, what in this approach/design do you find lacking?
Follow Ups:
Thanks re: the quote. It can be misinterpreted; I don't think it was intended to be a ko-an, but as with much of Zen practice, to much of Western thinking just about all Zen is confusing or ko-an like... which of course it is. But isn't. ;^)
Nothing lacking in the amp, per se. Just not how I like my amps designed or built, for now. Some of this is based on experience, the rest on the advice of those who I trust.
I would prefer a two-stage amp (or maybe three stage if all DHT). I prefer film/ stacked film/ metalised film-in-oil/ metalised film capacitors (though 'lytics can be useful in DC filament supplies), non-magnetic resistors (quality carbons or tants), minimal capacitive coupling to chassis (or other components/ wires), tags used sparingly, quality tube sockets, minimal solder joints, C or quality EI core outputs...
That is a start. As I said above, just preferences, not dictates.
Cheers.
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few." Shunryo Suzuki
RC:
So you're saying the parts quality could be better, eh? That's one reason I went with the AN Kit 1; good parts to begin with and lots of easily accessible upgrade options down the road. I'm getting upgraded Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil caps with my kit, and down the road, maybe I'll replace the ALPS volume pot with a stepped attenuator of some sort.
There's a Zen concept called "beginner's mind;" that's what I thought of when I saw the quote. :-)
And can somebody enlighten me about the distinction between two-stage and three-stage SE amps?
Beginners Mind is indeed the concept...
Yeah, parts quality... but perhaps more importantly, layout.
As for various numbers of stages in amp design, Thorsten Loesch did a nice little primer some years ago. Designs have evolved, sort of, and it is general, but still informative and he can express it better than I ever could. I am hoping the link works!
Cheers.
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few." Shunryo Suzuki
On the pictured Audio Nirvana amp, he will want to UNTIE all those neatly tie wrapped bundles of wire and let the leads fly in space, not touching each other ... intermingling fields, etc.
EZ to do !!
Jeff Medwin
I recall reading a "paper" about test that suggested capacitive coupling occurs between components and the chassis and the components themselves.
The wires are especially important because they have fields that can interact and in this case can do so over long distances. I would not be running signal wires in bunches against the metal chassis either. The only wires I would run next to the chassis are twisted filament wires (solid core for minimal field please) and maybe other wires that do not carry signal.
"Birds nest" should be better than bunches, but a design that avoids the interaction as much as possible seems more intuitive to me than "randomising" interaction.
See ya, time for coffee and breakfast.
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few." Shunryo Suzuki
""Birds nest" should be better than bunches, but a design that avoids the interaction as much as possible seems more intuitive to me than "randomising" interaction."
I have a hard enough time keeping my IC, speaker wire, AC cords from touching. Tri-amping can be a pain.
Jamie
Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!
Me too!
Often, we talk in ideals... but the practical reality is that we continually make compromises. We can only research and consider something then *consciously* make the compromises we feel are most appropriate.
Hmmm, do I keep that cable short, but take a hit with capacitive coupling? Do I use lead-to-lead (minimise solder connections) and take a hit with increased layout, build and service difficulty? Do I build my equipment for ideal external cable routing... but add internal complexity and limit system flexibility and appearance? And so on...
Our problems accumulate when we begin to see our concepts/ opinions/ ideals/ preferences/ paradigms as immutable truths; rigid.
Cheers.
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few." Shunryo Suzuki
LoMu -
Funny you should say that. I was in an email exchange with Steve Deckert of Decware while I was deciding what to buy and he said something similar to the effect that bundled wires are a no-no because they increase inductance, etc...
I have no basis to dispute this, but look at the photo of the Coincident Dynamo 34SE on this page and you'll see just that, and that amp's gotten some killer reviews so far.
Hmmmmm....
Rebbi,
This amp, despite whatever ONE or more reviewer thinks, is not so wonderful in my way of thinking.
There are several problems I can easily see from the photos. (1) the chassis is far too small, so everything field-wise is interacting. (2) the wires are bundled, a method proven to be inferior (3) I don't see a film cap in the amp, so you end up listening to electrolytic caps across cathodes. No thanks, not for my ears......thank you.
Rebbi, I will spend more than $1299 JUST for film caps.
I think this $1299 amp is worth $1,000 the day you buy it, and in ten years, may go for $400, if its still operating. You MAY outgrow it within 2 years if you start to A-B it against other amps !! I would suggest to (a) buy a quality amp used or (b) learn to DIY build your amp. 2A3, not a 300B !!
No free lunch.
Jeff Medwin
"he said something similar to the effect that bundled wires are a no-no because they increase inductance, etc..."
rebbi,
Search 6moons and look up a review of Eddy Current 2a3 preamp. At the end is a discussion of "birds-nest" wiring.
I respect Steve Deckart a lot. I want to make it to a Deckfest one year. I would take it over an audio show.
Jamie
Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!
You'll find Steve's outfit to be great value/dollar.
---Dennis---
If I had had $3500 to spend I'd have taken a long, hard look at the Zen Torii. I also considered the SE34I.4 "Rachael" amp. I liked the build to order model, but ultimately decided to build my own instead. :-) My AN Kit 1 should be here in a week or so!
"You'll find Steve's outfit to be great value/dollar."
I have four of his amps. I should try his phono stage.
Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!
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