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In Reply to: RE: I like this one... me too posted by Geary Lyons on November 17, 2014 at 10:57:51
{I must admit, is VERY hard to ignore the vulgar cosmetics of a Hogan amp}
The proof of the pudding is in the tasting, while I understand the questioning of outlandish statements made by DF and JM, what really matters is how does it sound?
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
Follow Ups:
(1) Almost all who have piled on and posted negative or demeaning comments in this thread so far, NEVER HEARD THIS AMP, but Frihed89 has been to an audio show to actually hear this amp.I suggest ALL read Frihed89's honest entries in the body of this thread.
Also, look up "lakerfan" posts on this Forum, who claims to have owned over 50 or 60 SET amps. Lakerfan only will listen to a Larry D. Moore Squared Ten amp and his Serious Stereo 2A3 amp....wonder why ?? Because they both excel, both are superior.
If "lakerfan's" comments interest you, also read Smart845 over in the UK's comments on the DC Type 45 amp we did together last year, based on Dennis' build principles. Unlike Grant, Barry spent the money to do it correctly with (a) wire and (b) film bypass capacitors....a whole lot of money !!! Read his review of his amp. I am waiting on Al and Andy to visit Barry and his rig !! :-)
(2) Contrary to what has been written by someone in this post, the innovative supply in a Serious Stereo amp is certainly not deficient at all, but rather, it is just the opposite - the BEST POSSIBLE supply to get the most out of a DHT DC amplifier.
It sounds like the music, and NOT like the time constants of high DCR chokes and over-filtering of the Finals. A conventional tube supply, by the book, for the last 100 years, is screwed up, always playing back music "out-of-time-" ..... ( in the AMP's time, and not in the time of the music. )
Hell, in 1982, the FIRST thing Bob Fulton told me about building a DHT amp was that all chokes have to be 20 Ohms or less in DCR. We use 10 Ohm stuff, or lower, now.
People who have HEARD the more innovative "modern" type of supply, when well executed, ( and I bet FEW of this thread's negative posters have come to a show and heard it ) ....immediately understand the difference.
At the end of the day, the two most important things are (1) how does the amp sound and (2) is it reliable and able to maintain its high performance over a long time.
Personally, no one "I" know, does better tube amps than Dennis Fraker, YMMV, fine with me !!
Jeff Medwin
Edits: 11/18/14 11/18/14 11/18/14
We all know the LSES sounds different. It's been explained why by several people here over the years. If you like the sound it produces, then enjoy it. But a good portion of the industry does feel that a power supply should not be used as a tone control or dynamics enhancer.As for the wire, you aren't going to convince anyone with a competent electronics background that the use of silver hookup wire versus doorbell wire in the Serious Stereo amp will have any difference in audible performance. That's simply not possible under our laws of physics and no I don't need to try it. And furthermore I don't see much silver wire under that amp either. Seems the stock transformer leads are good enough for Dennis too.
If we want to discuss silver output transformer windings, then I agree there is possibly something to hear.
But we all now know the SS 2A3 amp is just another polished turd, which you have spent years polishing here. It a basic 2A3 amp anyone can easily duplicate. There is no magic under the hood.
Edits: 11/18/14
many an amp was sold in audio salon's by pushing a loudness button an an amp in the 70s & 80s.
Beautiful name-calling post from a grown up, supposedly mature Eletronics Engineer, graduate, I think of Lehigh University Remedial College.Lets call him Clark Kent, because he must be able to see through the wire insulation, to see what is inside. Not that wire matters, that he has already shot himself in the foot via his post, for all to see. I am just posting so he doesn't come to his senses and delete it !!!
Maybe I understated my case about most of them. My two points, made above, remain intact, because its the truth !!
Jeff Medwin
Edits: 11/18/14 11/22/14
Yawn... Oh yah right, spending money, that's all it takes!
It's as if that's a choice we all have available, regardless of circumstance, and by "choosing" not to, we are actively/consciously saying, "I'm not interested in accurate sound", makes Jeff's kind of sense, at least he's consistent. Good job, especially on that careful wording to avoid you know what...must be tough sometimes.
.
why shouldn't I ?
Sometimes, its like saying, I don't care what goes in my food, all that matters is what it taste like. Nobody has criticized the sound. From what I have picked up, is that there are basic engineering flaws that no one in the right mind would ignore. Maybe the amps would sound even better......
Edits: 11/17/14
is now passe'; even if I do not agree with trashing our water supply in the process. The issue concerns can one HEAR the substandard power supply save through an oscilloscope? Can you? Have you? I have no use for conjecture.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
Have you tasted human in a stew? Have you? Would you eat more if you tasted it and liked it?
It does taste good. I believe the reports that it does so. I am now answering you on a moral plane and the answer is no. I will never eat human flesh. There is no degradation of character involved through listening to music, unlike cannabilism. You are comparing apples to oranges when one involves moral precedent. A twisted tautology that makes as much sense as 'in order to be free we must all become slaves'.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
This debate is about more than "it sounds good to my ears". You ever hear a John Hogan amp? They sound good but most people would not build an amp like that. Do you want something accurate or something that is pleasing to your ear? Two different things. In some cultures, cannibalism is not taboo. Someone may argue that it is a degradation of character to misrepresent engineering?
I have both, I have many amps built, by me and together with a close friend.I have a push/pull 45 for deadly accuracy.
I have a modified George Wright for euphonic smoothness.
I can build to suit the music or my whim.
Here is one build, there are many other in form... usually, but not always following function.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
Edits: 11/17/14
Was that built by a guy out upper n. west. It looks familiar.One of mine.
Former amp
Edits: 11/17/14 11/17/14
GEO,
A tip of the hat to you sir.
Wow, having to discuss audio Absolute Sound style for years on end must be a drag. Even more so for you.
He does seem to get fed regular. I'm not surprised when he shows up at dinnertime.
For myself, I'm going to ignore the ad copy, and respond to the meaningful, and treat them both like they are somebody's grandfather, even when they are abrasive and curmudgeonly.
Jamie
Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!
No, that one was built by Will and I both...that one in the photo is a one off, many too many special attributes unlike what Will sells. Am working out of town at present so am unable to show my builds that do not include Will... they use solid maple wood frame/hi- carbon stainless 9 gauge via plasma cutter. I'm not against overkill... if it is done in moderation.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
OK. I thought that looked liked a Vincent amp. I have not heard them. I have followed your posts in the pasts. I was using an extreme example because I am sure you not only care about what your amps sound like and I would be surprised that you would chose to do things that make no sense to basic engineering principles Not discovering something untried, but rather doing things that have been proven to be wrong. I would be surprised if you did not care that a car idles twice as fast as necessary, even although it drives nice? Most of these arguments have been about outlandish and made up claims. Look at Dennis' post about how mesh tubes work..... gibberish. Another gem, he said most amps don't sound good after you purchase them because nobody uses the shake test to match tubes like he does. You can't go by how they test. You have to shake them and find the ones that sound the same when you shake them. They have different resonant frequencies based on how the internal rattle around inside. Find the two that sounds the same.
CS,
You posted a PP amp on the SET forum? I would take either one of the SET amps pictured on this thread. Hell, I give up.
Jamie
Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!
An SET is the ultimate amp for playback on sensitive speakers, no doubt.
Of course, that is why we build SETs !!! Joe Roberts has influenced a lot of this I'd suggest !!! Hi Joe !! Got some Emilar / Showco EH-500s with adaptors for my 802Ds last month .
Jeff Medwin
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