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In Reply to: RE: China posted by Triode_Kingdom on June 17, 2014 at 08:17:56
That's whatLampizator was doing - he'd find a half decent Chinese amp (cause many look cool) and the oens that have quality transformers he could then open up and basically rebuild the internals to something he felt was much better. But he got the good case and the good transformers and upgrading the rest isn't too pricey.For regular consumers it helps if the dealer you buy from has the ability to make the modifications and tell you that you are getting the correct part.
I have seen Chinese amps and CD players where there is a tube on display that doesn't actually do anything it just sits in the front like a woman in a brothel and looks all tubey --- ooh ahhh (Ahem Vincent Audio which is rebadged Shengya) So you buy a Tube CD player but really it's a SS CD player - they will call it "hybrid" - then you get parts that say Wima but may not be and on it goes. Not that Wima is particularly expensive to start with.
Some copies are good mind you. China came out with the HiPhone. It became so popular (because apparently it is a very good copy) that other companies started copying the HiPhone - a copy of the copy!!!!!!!
If you are a Chinese company that does actually love audio and you start out you have a HUGE negative view going against you from the start. No one trusts the products (understandably) so how do you break free from that reputation?
If I was them I would have to come out swinging with an overbuilt tank of an amplifier and use sourced higher end parts from other countries (if for no other reason the add some credibility). Line Magnetic uses Cardas cables and connectors. Is it because they are necessarily better? MAYBE. But it's probably more likely that by using known parts that can be checked and verified you can set yourself apart from the field a little bit. You use German caps or Japanese Alps pots you get a feel for the the level. And you say well ALPS isn't that great but it's a tick up from the bottom and if you sell your amp for $1500 and the American company sells his for $6k and also use the same Alps then you start getting ahead of the competition.
I now live in Hong Kong and Chinese made stuff is a very hard sell here as well. The Hong Kong Chinese view stuff made in China as crap so they buy the Shindo/Audio Note/old restored McIntosh/Eisntein/VAC etc and DIY is popular here - The dealers have cap upgrades galore, wiring, etc.
The other issue is a lack of consistency - the Chinese will often sell the superior product overseas and sell the cheap junk lookalike at home or online dealers. So the US version will get the Rubycon and Mundorf and the online outlets may sell the Rudycon and Milf-don caps.
Ultimately it's why I generally always go back to Audio Note - I always know I will get the real deal part - it may be expensive but they tend to retain their value such that it often winds up being less expensive than the Chinese. I sold my Audio Note turntable for more than I paid for it several years back - I can sell my OTO Phono SE amplifier for what I paid for it 10 years ago (ditto my Audio Note J/Spe speakers). I had a free stereo system for a decade. So when people say this stuff is expensive I scratch my head. Sure not everything will this work but the models don;t change for 20 years but the new list price continues to rise and rise. Then the second hand value rises and rises. And because the model is not replaced the second hand item is second hand but "current."
Edits: 06/17/14Follow Ups:
Even the mainland Chinese are very suspicious of domestic made goods -as well as the Hong Kongers.
Very interesting post, thanks. I didn't realize they were installing an "extra" tube, but I'm not surprised. When I was a kid, the Japanese sold 12 and 14 transistor radios with half or more of the transistors being dummies just soldered to the board. Didn't fool the FTC for long. :)
Looks like the weekend is getting closer; only a few days now until I land in Beijing. I used to hunt for vacuum tubes during my earlier trips, but now I don't bother. Like you say, if it's any good at all, even passably saleable, they export it. All that's left behind are the dregs. Besides, I have way more tubes already than I can ever use. What I really need is the time to build more gear.
I agree completely about buying quality equipment. I do that with photo gear, usually top-line stuff that I pick up second hand. It costs me very little to use it for several years, then sell it for something better. Sometimes on these trips, I even buy a used body for a spare, then sell it when I get back. That usually ends up looking like a $20 rental. :)
Incidentally, I also lived in China about a year. That was back in '96-'97. I was in technical sales at the time, and I traveled quite a bit with clients around the eastern areas; Shanghai, Nanjing, Beijing up to Shenyang. Could tell a few funny stories about lifestyles and culture from those days. Most of my time this trip will be spent in SW China - Kunming, Dalia, etc. My last two attempts to get into that area were thwarted by natural disasters (quake in '08 and massive floods in '10). I'm looking forward to some new photographic experiences if things go better this year. I hear the streets of Shangri-La are paved with gold...
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
"Most of my time this trip will be spent in SW China - Kunming, Dalia, etc. My last two attempts to get into that area were thwarted by natural disasters (quake in '08 and massive floods in '10)."Saw today in the news that there's been a large 6.1 quake in SW China. The epicenter was about halfway between Chengdu and Kunming, both of which I visited not more than three weeks ago. Guess I should be thankful I got back to the States in one piece.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Edits: 08/03/14
If you go to China again, would recommend you plan a layover in Shanghai. It has changed quite a bit in the past 26 years -see link.
Was in The Bund last October, and the view is absolutely stunning. Provided it is on a day the smog will allow it.
I've been to Shangahi several times, the most recent being 2010 when I attended the World Expo. The view from the CCTV tower is astounding; it's a forest of skyscrapers, larger and denser than any city in the US, maybe anywhere in the world. The streets are filled with Caddys, BMWs and Mercedes, and a poor Westerner like me can't even afford to shop in most of the malls. IMO, the absolute best thing to see in Shanghai is the museum. It's first class, one of the best in the world.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Edits: 06/19/14
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