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Friends,
I am in the market for a relatively powerful SET amp. I currently use a Wavac 300B amp which puts out only 10 watts and my speakers need more. The Ayon Crossfire III seems like an interesting proposal with 30 watts of pure class A, zero negative feedback SET design. It uses AA62 tubes which are modified versions of 300B. Has any one heard this amp ? It will be driving a pair of Tannoy Turnberry SE speakers.
Follow Ups:
I would try to source a pair of Air Tight ATM-211 monos for your Tannoy. I heard that combination and it was sublime on small scale music. Not sure about "pounding rock " though ....
Rgrds, W
Well for about half the price I'd also try my Line Magnetic 219IA which is 24 watts (with ease) but doesn't look nearly as sexy as Ayon. Although does appeal to some.
A second hand Audio Note Jinro (18 watts) could likely be had for the same price as the Ayon.
I liked Ayon with Legacy at CAS although I was one of the few reviewers that did - I factored in the awful room but still. I don;t recall the amp but it wasn't this one. I mention the 219IA due to the attractive price - with $7 grand savings you can have the caps and wires upgrades and you can afford to buy much nicer tubes. Further it can also be used as a dual mono power amp kinda like monoblocks in one box) and $7k can buy a pretty awesome preamp down the line.
Nice amp but different. It has some serious balls and can drive conventional speakers very well. But two things:
1. I do not like the sound of 845. They sound too big to my ears and the subtlety is hardly there especially coming from a low powered SETs.
I have heard many 845 amps and my conclusion has roughly been same.
2. LM 219IA sounded more like a good push-pull than SET in the way it projected the music. The perspective was slightly distant, less intimate than typical SETs.
Having said that if my bias against 845 was not an issue the LM219IA is one heck of an amp. Very quiet and very dynamic...no-nonsense amp.
Fair enough This is why they make a variety of tube types. They're nto for everyone.
If you're not a big fan of the 845 I doubt you will like the 211 all that much more since they're in the same sonic vein.
300B parallel is the only way I would probably want to go with 300B and least expensive set-up that I have personally liked was the Audio Note M6 preamp with AN SOGON cables into the AN Conquest Silver Monoblock (18 watts per channel) and a CD 4.1. And that is well over $70,000 I believe before speakers.
Can't really take the amps in isolation either. Stick a great amp in a mediocre system and you just get mediocre sound.
That is my problem - I could have bought the Jinro but then I'd have no money to do anything else.
Personally, I would try not to buy an integrated amp if you can help it - not at the dollars you're at. Also factor in resale value should it not work out. Audio Note will hold value far more than my Line Magnetic and probably more than Ayon. Separates will too I bet.
The only reason I went with the 219IA was because it allows for a preamp which allows me to follow my long term plan. I would also suggest trying copper wired version of AN amps that are silver - the silver to me works better in AN systems - the copper works better in mixed and matched systems and is cheaper.
...The only reason I went with the 219IA was because it allows for a preamp which allows me to follow my long term plan. I would also suggest trying copper wired version of AN amps that are silver - the silver to me works better in AN systems - the copper works better in mixed and matched systems and is cheaper...
Do you mean output transformers? AFAIK all products in level 3 and up are wired in silver. M6 which starts the "true AN sound signature" has a secondary of the output transformer wired in silver.
Rgrds, W
Yes I meant the silver transformers but I was also thinking of their speakers. The copper speakers seem more at ease with SS amps for example.
Ideally I would be able to directly compare (A/B) the M3 and M6 amplifiers with a set of silver wired speakers.
But as it stands now with my Hong Kong system being
Line Magnetic CD 215 CD Plyaer
Line Magnetic 502CA DAC
Line Magnetic 219IA integrated
Audio Note AX Two Speakers
KEF LS-50 Loudspeakers
I want to eventually get to the following in this order:
1) Audio Note E/Spx HE Alnico (the Alnico tweeters to me just take the whole thing up several leagues)
2) Audio Note M6 preamp (into the LM 219IA would then serve as a Dual Mono power amp)
3) AN DAC 3.1x/II Balanced
4) AN CD/Two II Transport.
5) Then the issue of power amps. With the High efficiency in smallish Hong Kong living spaces it would likely open up options including the 2 watt per channel 45 tube amp.
Still I prefer the 211 over 300B amps and I prefer the power of the 845 over 300B amps thus far. The Conquest Silver though made me rethink that somewhat as it sounded quite robust at the dealer here. I had a non audiophile friend with me and was a bit distracted from serious listening but the amp with the J/LX had some pounding ability on rock which is a must for me.
Audio Note unfortunately doesn't make an 845 and their 211s are well out of my range. The 2a3 is a possible but I like some big scale dynamic drive ability which is why I prefer the 845/211. But the 300B does have the intimacy and inner resolution thing so I could keep the 845 219IA and then add the 300B/2a3 and get the best of both worlds (no law says you have to be stuck with one kind of power amp right)? And I genuinely like many of these tube outputs. I like what my OTO does with its EL84s and I like what 300B does well and I like the bigger sounding 211/845. They each bring something and lose something. It's just fining space to put all this crap. I hate trading stuff - always lose a bunch of money and then I regret selling it for too cheap.
I agree about alnico tweeters. If you could give up a little of that "pounding bass on rock " used AN Vindicator 2a3 with C-cores should give you a heck of pleasure in closet like space with your AN-J.
I used to laugh at guys using 45 amps with mid 90'dB speakers but myself I set up older Living Voice Avatars in a closet , hooked up 45 DiY monoblocks and have a little bit of forbidden pleasure from time to time (actually quite often). Of course they go belly up on any challenging material but have such lovely tonality that I just play simple stuff and enjoy it for what they are. We are hijacking the thread here .....
what about Tom Evans?
It is one of the better SETs out there in that power range. Very transparent and superbly dynamic. Another contender would be the KR Audio VA350i, which has similar power and similar transparency and dynamics.
I have heard an older generation Crossfire (mKII) and used to own the VA350i and both are focused on dynamics and transparency and will REALLY tell you how good your source is. They are not from the warmer cuddlier school of SET.
Thanks Morricab, the question is, in the quest for dynamics and transparency, does the Ayon sacrifice the tonal colours ? Do they sound cooler than neutral ?
Haven't heard the Crossfire so I can't comment on it but would suggest looking into the Cary 805 AE.
I have and love a well built/designed 300b SET matched with a "very friendly" speaker but I have another system with Magnepans that I normally run ss amps with. I actually ran the Maggies with my <10 wpc SETs a couple of times and it was great with some music, especially the "girl and guitar" types. Loving that 300b midrange, but wondering what more power could do, I took a chance on the 805 AE's which the builder describes as "a 300b SET driving an 845 or 211 thru an interstage transformer". It gives you 50 or 70 wpc depending on which output tube you choose. Besides all the techno-babble that manufacturers and dealers spout over their amps they make/sell, I found these "big" SETs to sound very nice. YMMV.
Sk,
I understand, most of us eventually find what we are searching for, OTL, SET class D etc. I find SETs the best suited for me but it's simply a personal preference as is yours for OTL. Bottom line is we both end up very happy with our choices.
A good friend has the Canterbury SE's and listens with the Atmasphere Novacrons, have never heard better! The only issue is the Novacrons take months and months to get. I waited over 9 months for my own pair!
(Dealer disclaimer)
These are two entirely different amps with different typologies. Hard to compare an OTL with a conventional (with output transformers, not tubes)SET.
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
Correct but over my close to 40 years of listening I've had SS, SE, PSE, PP and now OTL's and by far the best have been the OTL's. Now you most certainly have to match these with the right impedance speakers but once heard it's no going back! If I had these 20 years ago I would be well over $100,000 richer.
(Dealer disclaimer)
Unfortunately, good OTL's are out of my price range and it's hard to find dealers who sell and stock them. So, i'll stick with SETs with OPTs and just hunt around for better OPTs!
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
Frihed89,
OTLs can be great choices depending on the system and listener's taste. I personally would rather have a good quality SET based on comparisons I've heard. One isn't categorically "better" just depends on what you're seeking in type of sound. People switch from one type to the other not infrequently. Proclamations of absolute best don't make sense.
Ditto....couldn't have been said any better.
I'll repeat myself....OTL's mated with the right speaker (should have a fairly flat impedance) is by far the best sound I've had in my listening studio. YMMV but for me there's no turning back.
(Dealer disclaimer)
No need to repeat yourself. No one is doubting your ear either. It's just that it might not be everyone's cup of tea. A lot of diverse tastes in this hobby.
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