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Not 100% on topic but I am looking to upgrade in 8-12 months and my choices have been narrowed down to either the Audio Note Legend 300B Parallel SET kit or the Manley Mahi Monoblocks. Apples to Oranges I realize but I'm runnning 90dB two ways that are in the 5ohm range. I don't listen at very loud volume and I place a premium on natural sound and emotional involvement.
Does anyone have any experience with the Legends? What is your impression of them? Same questions for the Mahi? The only reason I'm considering the Mahi is due to the used market pricing and I've always admired Manley gear.
I'm asking in this forum because I feel that those interested in SETs share my personal goals for music reproduction in the home.
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Before I elaborate on their sound, we have to remember that they have to sound dissimilar because they use very different tubes. 300B is a relatively sweeter sounding tube with a certain focus on midrange. If you listen to a lot of rock, pop, michael jackson stuff you will not probably admire what the 300B do. They will sound okay but they wont blow you. On the other hand the EL84 is a more rock-ish, bluesy tube. It has a certain oomph and bite that makes it more suitable to listeners who like rock or rock-inpsired music and want air guitar along with it. However the EL84 can sound a bit hard and probably not as delicate when you listen to jazz and vocals. Having said that:
The Audio note kit Legend 300B (PSE) is very good. It still remains one of the best 300B amps I have heard under $10k price. I have heard the Audio Note conquest alongside and to my ears the Legend was more neutral, faster and overall more accurate. It made rock music sound more interesting than AN conquest. It just has more fun and excitement factor without giving away the delicacy factor. And yes, it is very refined too.
The Manley sounds probably bigger and bolder, has a certain sense of momentum, reasonable neutral, more bass impact, less refined, less delicate, interesting on rock but okay-ish on classical and Jazz. Even though it was fun to listen to, it didnt have the "class".
To complete, I have heard the Audio note OTO SE too, it is also based on EL84 but it is a SET. This amp is amazing. Probably one of the best SETs around for sane money. I liked it more than the big 300B amps from Audio note and most other SETs I have heard. It is that good. But it puts out only about 6 watts "genuinely" so, speakers which will work with it are between far and few. This is just to say that, I like EL84 tubes are lot, more than 300B but implementation is the key.
Hi Sean
I see your in West Michigan..Probably GR,Traverse,Muskegon,Holland,or possibly Ludington..
Anyway,I'm in Saginaw and I'm working on a few 300b amps lately but the Welborne amps are nice as well as the 300b amps with higher output.
I will tell you tho,a properly rebuild Mcintosh Mc225 is tough to beat and can be used as an integrated as well.
Honest amplification is better than excessive 2nd order distortion anytime.
I'm in Kalamazoo actually.
I've never heard a 225 but it is on my list of to-dos.
I'll have to add Welborne to the list as well. If I am understanding correctly they are schematics and one must purchase the parts to complete?
I'll have to add Welborne to the list as well. If I am understanding correctly they are schematics and one must purchase the parts to complete?
They have complete kits and the implementation of the Welborne kits are very reminiscent of Heathkit in that they are very thorough in their step by step direction and ease of assembly..Shoot me an email and I can send you the manual via PDF.
Honest amplification is better than excessive 2nd order distortion anytime.
Avoid Welborne like the plague! They have a long history of not delivering and not communicating once they get your money.
Kyle
I remember that being the case a few years back but I was told things are ok now no?
Honest amplification is better than excessive 2nd order distortion anytime.
But why take the risk unless they're significantly cheaper than the AN Kits chances are they won't be using better parts. The McIntosh amps don't.
Alrighty then, Welborne off the list. Really leaning toward the ANK at this point. I like the idea of building a kit. I may even get more adventurous and build something from a proven schematic from scratch. I'd only attempt this if I could find some amazing support.
I heard the AudioNote 300b SET amp on their speakers and I was not impressed in the least..The SE amp I really loved was the KT88 one that Kegger built.I think he was using Edcor or custom Heyboer iron but that was a nice sounding amp.
I still think there is nothing like a Mac Mc225 in the 30 watt and under range.That one I just rebuilt and upgraded with Jim McShane's kits is just a gem and it really was on it hooked to my big ribbons.
Honest amplification is better than excessive 2nd order distortion anytime.
I just built a pair of Legends for another member here. I will ping him for his impressions as he's been listening to them for a few weeks.
What I can tell you is that the build of the Legend is a really fun one. The layout is nice and the parts quality is high from chassis to transformers. One point--there's been a change at ANK away from ANUk parts, so if you want to emulate the factory products you will need to get caps, resistors, valve bases and other trimmings from audio collective in the uk. This isn't saying that the amps aren't high quality as supplied, they are!
Hope this helps.
Nest, Doug
That's good news. I'm less concerned with it being "Audio Note" than I am with it being a good kit with quality components. The PSET Legend fits my desired specs perfectly. I love the 300B tube but I need a tiny bit more oomph and the PSET provides that. $3250 is a decent chunk of change to shell out for a kit. Feedback from the member you built them for would be greatly appreciated. I like experimenting with caps, resistors etc. and a kit is a great way to do that since you are familiar with how everything went together.
I still see the same types of complaints about them on other boards. I wouldn't take a chance when there are good suppliers out there who have more concern for your satisfaction.
Both solid brands - but you are correct comparing EL84 versus Parallel 300B will highly depend on what you like better. And of course how each will work with whatever preamp you're using.
I think you need to judge the sound somehow yourself because I highly doubt anyone here as heard both amps in direct comparison in the same room with the same equipment. Further - tube choices can benefit hinder the results.
The advantage to the Manley is that it can probably be resold easier given that it's not a kit. The Kit offers the advantage of usually better parts quality at the price and being easily upgradeable by you at a later time - as well as learning a little about electronics if you have not done a kit before. You could upgrade the wiring caps resisters etc down the line quite easily. And you'll be getting Audio Note transformers at the outset which are probably as good as transformers get in the tube world.
But 300Bs tend to cost a lot more than EL84s!!!
What you could do is try to audition the Audio Note OTO SE (EL84) and if you like it then look for the P1SE which is just the power amp section of the OTO SE. This way you can compare apples to apples somewhat in that at least you're comparing EL84 to EL84
Then try to audition the Conquest monoblock amps which are parallel 300B like the Kit. It's easier to find and audition the production models which should give you somewhat of an idea what the kit would be like.
Don't count out the OTO or P1SE either. Much less expensive but highly musically rewarding.
IMHO ,Legends are not Audio Notes and are not using AN transformers nor following parts choice / The may still sound great.
Do you know if Andy Grove designed the Legends? If so I would suspect they'd still sound terrific. I see in their FAQ section that some parts are still sourced from AN UK. Which ones and for which models I don't know but the C-Cores from Canada look impressive.
The info on the name separation and business change is linked. It makes sense - I am sure dealers and AN UK constantly get a barrage of questions on the kits. The usual - which production model is equal to kit so and so?
Not sure who designed them. Chinese c-core transformers also look impressive. I have no idea why the kits lost AN authorization. I can only suspect it happened because they stopped being essentially Audio Note with all new models cropping up. I also think that if they were designed by Andy they must be "grooving " great amps (especially if he also designed transformers )
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