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In Reply to: RE: Welborne Moondogs posted by No Disc on August 09, 2012 at 11:09:17
Do a little thinking on your own-- decide how far you want to go.
Sophia "mesh" ARE NOT "mesh". These are Solid Plates with holes punched in them. NOT NICE, but SO CHEAP! Also, the folded and slanted filament arrangement is childish compared to EML, which uses 8 individual filaments all arranged to provide the same total shape as the tube's plate and grid rack. The idea is to not generate added distortions inside the tube. EML is the only true Mesh-Plate out there right now-- a true mesh-plate is INTERWOVEN, not punched.
Punched creates added distortion as energy bunches around the holes-- in weird fashion. True Mesh simply catches all the electrons-- it doesn't toss them back at skew angles.
You get what you pay for. It's your call.
---Dennis---
Follow Ups:
any mesh plate will NOT catch all the electrons emitted from the cathode, punched or wire construction.
Stu
Hi Uncle Stu! Hmmmm-- there is the grid in there.....
What do you think? Where do they go? Can a Solid-Plate catch them all? What kind of plate has the most bounce-back? The least? In between?
So what do you think?
---Dennis---
The grid does not catch all the electrons either. It works by repelling the electrons generated from the cathode by a increasing the amount of usually negative voltage. Plates have usually very high voltage i order to attract and accelerate the electron flow.
If you have a small of electrons allowed by the cathode the mesh may capture majority of it. Going full bore, with the grid voltage wide open, will certainly not capture all of the electrons being emitted.
Any electron passing through the mesh is absorbed by the glass or metal envelop.
Remember the original black solid plate structurs were designed to capture more of the electrons hitting the surface of the plate. Later it was determined that merely roughening the surface could accomplish a similar effect, although sonically there are many who doubt that statement.
Also remember that the original carbon coated glass envelopes were made to dissipate hot spots developed from electron bombardment. The carbon coated glass disappears when solid plates appear and also in conjunction with the development of low resistance glass (they use lead glass, IIRC, for glass envelopes and and a higher electrical resistance glass for the base buttons). There are issues with the electron blow by arising from even the inspection holes in plate structures.
Then again, in my experience, the same tube with solid plates and mesh type plates, always have the solid plates with better dynamics. The mesh have a "softer" presentation which may be more to your liking, but it certainly indicative of something, you think?
YMMV
Stu
I remember when I was a kid of about 14 and Dad bought me a box of tracer bullets for my 22 Ruger. I would wait until dark and then shoot the tracers out over the lake. The mile long continuous greenish glow would be reflected in the water as they arced high over the lake, extinguishing just before they dropped into the girl's camp on the far side.
I can only speak for the AVVT true mesh plate tubes, but when I turn out the lights in my listening room I can't help but remember the long ago trails of tracer rounds as the fountain of green electrons ejaculates from the plates of my 2A3s. These are the electrons that have gone through the plates and are now on their own path in long arcing trails; a fountain of ghoulish green glowing electrons. Once I think I detected a Higgs Boson particle when two electrons collided in a small but potent nuclear fusion just over the turntable, but I could be wrong about that.
I hope you filmed it!
Oh, Dude! We have a few forest fires going out here-- probably nothing compared to what could happen.. (Here, rain-- please!).
Anyhow, there it was-- the Sun-- placed exactly with its bottom of the circle right on the horizon-- the whole thing above it.
It looked CLEAR! The whole Golden sky. Lit up so nice, it looked shiny Gold-Plated. The sky. CLEAR smog? Well, it was pristine-- not totally red-- not totally golden, and not smoky one bit.
Just a clear, red-golden shine from the Sun's fireball, not Golden like the Sky-- so there was a color contrast going on.. VERY bright-- you couldn't look at it.
A guy in a VW TDI Jetta had stopped, and he and his great-looking girl were taking pictures-- he with his Nikon, and she with an I-Pad-- or equivalent-- whatever it was.
They looked like they had just been given the entire Candy Store. From Texas-- at least Texas plates on the VW. Kids having fun.
I think they got quite a show.
---Dennis---
As long as they did not return fire with a 50 cal, just good clean fun.
Thanks Dennis. Appreciate the feedback. Will you be attending RMAF this year, and if so, using the EMLs in your 2A3 amps?
Absolutely! I believe in supporting RMAF as much as I can-- the people behind it have always been great, and the manufacturers who come there are among the World's best.
This allows us to forget about all the effort we've done-- and get out and visit the other rooms-- see what other guys have done, invented, or rearranged! You always learn at RMAF.
I sincerely hope MBL (Germany) will be there with their largest Radialstrayler speaker. I really like this thing-- and even more-- the kind Lady and the good people behind the company. First chance I get-- after I get things sounding right-- my crew will let me get away-- and I'll go straight to MBL first and see what they have done lately. ClearAudio is another, and I always enjoy ARC, Vandersteen, and I love to see it when McIntosh gets razzed-up-- they do this every few years-- bring out their BIG stuff. That's not every year, but I've had fun in their room before-- several times.
One year, BurMester (Germany) did something. Usually, it's just play the goodies. But that year, a young, athletic, friendly guy set up their room. Well, he could HEAR! It was really good that time!
People who buy my amps can choose their tubes. They get extra hand-picked driver tubes and rectifiers. These last for years-- but the idea is that you have a lifetime supply of hand-picked ones. The output tubes are either EML or AVVT Mesh. I usually encourage owners to have JJs around also-- the 2A3-40 Solid-Plate. The idea is you can play these every day-- as loud as you want-- they're quite decent and VERY rugged.
You play those when you're just doing dishes, or cooking Dinner, working in the shop or washing clothes. When friends come over, or you just want the best-- you drag-out the Meshes.
At shows, we usually have all 3 types to play with. People can have us switch them around and see what each can do. We gave up on ALL NOS 2A3 types of any kind-- sold all of them-- they don't compete with today's best. Switching tubes around is done during a slow (visitor-wise) period (increasingly rare)-- or on Sat. evening after hours, when we'll do a lot of things we can't touch while people are listening during daytime visit hours.
During Sat. evenings, after show hours, we have played with cables, interconnects, other amps, and other program sources when someone had something really good to show us. I learned about PranaWire that way at RMAF 2005. The guy simply walked in and said, "Here-- put these in-- I've been in this room several times already-- it's the best here, but here's what it really needs"! Those interconnects stayed for the whole duration.
---Dennis---
Not Dennis, but he will be there and I'd be surprised if he did not have the EML in play at some point. Wish I could attend...
“As long as we have any intention to be right… we should be wary. So long as words have the slightest ego attachment, they are dishonest.” Charlotte Joko Beck
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