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Dared VP-300B Amplifier (Tube) Review by dozer

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Model:	VP-300B
Category:	Amplifier (Tube)
Suggested Retail Price:	$1995.00
Description:	300B SET mono block amps
Manufacturer URL:	Dared

Review by dozer (A) on December 17, 2004 at 16:39:00
IP Address: 68.120.245.6

Add Your Review
for the VP-300B

I'm not a true bonafide audiophile I don't think. I do like to try different gear and I've had the following amps: Sansui AU519, McCormack DNA 0.5, Parasound 2200mkII, Continuum Stage+, Continuum Unison 3.1 integrated, a Chiro three channel thing, nOrh Le Amps, Audio Note P2 PP, Audio Note Soro integrated, and maybe some I don't remember. Could I put those amps in order by quality in any kind of credible way? Probably not really - I had them all at different times and right now I'm totally in a tube phase and I feel like I've sworn off SS forever. But anyway I just want to say I'm not a "reviewer" like some of the guys on this board and others are. Nobody should read much into my opinion.
But I can testify that this guy Joe really delivers what he advertises anyway - I bought on Sunday, received two hours ago (the following Friday). Beautiful looking piece of gear, hefty - doesn't seem cheap to me! There is not the slightest hint of hum from the power transformer - there is nothing to complain about, frown about, or worry about so far!
I'm playing the amp in my bedroom with some Allison AL-105 (cheap speakers 90db eff). I'm using a kit built Consonace Basie preamp (which was once for sale but isn't now because I love all these glowing bottles!), and a Cal Icon MkII CD player. Stock chinese tubes including the 300Bs that come with the amp for an extra $130.
I have to say that this amp is awesome, and I'm trying to make sure I keep an open mind so I don't just engage in wishful thinking. But since I got turned onto tube amps I've needed to try 300B set and I'm glad I tried this little Chinese amp!
I'd say I have "liquid mids" and "microdynamics" just galore in here! All those subtle drum strokes and fingers on the bass strings (AC/DC If You Want Blood is on now - first was Petty and Diana Krall, and it's all good).
I can't wait to try the amp with my Audio Note ANE-SPE (good speakers 93db eff). The guys on this board made me afraid to fry an expensive tweeter. Now I'm thinking of bringing my AN speakers into the bedroom and letting the wife have the big room to herself! Nearfield listening right now with this system is better than hogging the whole main room trying to re-create concerts with a loud SS system.
This amp definitely is not some kind of frightening out-and-out ripoff like the threads on this board implied. Do they compete with $20K monoblocks? Well, I am just never going to know that first hand that's for sure
I just registered.. I am not in China, and I'm not a shill for Dared. I'll enjoy your insults and mocking remarks... but I will answer any emails somebody might want to send to test my credibility as just a plain old, ordinary satisfied American customer - delighted to try SETs for $600!

Product Weakness: I don't know.. I guess they don't cost enough to have credibility or something? Seem great for my purpose. I hope and pray that the real expensive 300B amps do some stuff better - maybe more bass slam?
Product Strengths: liquid mids and microdynamics. very beautiful. Dead quiet transformers..

Associated Equipment for this Review:
Amplifier:	Dared VP-300B
Preamplifier (or None if Integrated):	Consonance Basie
Sources (CDP/Turntable):	Cal Icon MkII
Speakers:	Allison AL-105(soon will move in ANE-SPs)
Cables/Interconnects:	cheap stuff
Music Used (Genre/Selections):	Everything Diana Krall to AC/DC
Room Size (LxWxH):	9 x 12 x 9
Time Period/Length of Audition:	2 hrs
Type of Audition/Review:	Product Owner

Follow Ups:

Welcome to the picked on club! - timb5881 14:12:52 12/19/04 (5)
I posted a review of the Dared VP300B last year, and of course I was nailed (crucified?) as well. As I write this now, I am listening to another Dared amp, the MP-6V, a single ended amp using 6L6 based tubes. Oh well, I have 3 Dared products, this one, the MP-6 and a SL2000 pre, and ll 3 are still working just fine. And they still sound fine.

Tim
- Re: Welcome to the picked on club! - dozer 16:00:20 12/19/04 (4)
  Don't you remember at the sales meeting this morning they told us to act like we don't know each other? I'm not sure posting to my thread was such a good idea pard... they might catch on that we're in cahoots with Dared - posting from a net cafe in China!
  Seriously I read your whole thread the day after I bought the amp and I was really not able to tell the true from the false about this amp because it was so emotion-charged, the whole thing. I was a little stressed out wondering if it would arrive, if it would play when I plugged it in, and if it would sound like doody.
  Now seeing it for myself, it's apparent that there is an ultra-vocal and psycho minority who cast the Asylum in a really negative light with their racism and mean-spiritedness. So many people were convinced out of the gate that I'm not a real customer... and I imagine some others remain convinced that I'm a shill or partner of Joe or something. I guess these people are out there in the world - being mean to co-workers, being mean to store clerks, being mean to dogs, spouses and kids probably.
  But then there are some people like Thorsten who are genuinely helpful and sincere. Some others too - who maybe can chuckle to themselves when a new guy gets carried away and writes a "review" too fast, and not act like the American Way is under fire and have to take up arms.
  It's too bad about some of the meaner people - so anxious to slam this product and its distributor that they lose all rationality in the process.
  Well, it's been fun in a way. I think I'll upgrade a few parts with helpful advise from experienced audiophiles - and just have some fun at it.
  - Re: Welcome to the picked on club! - timb5881 16:08:32 12/19/04 (3)
    Do you have this years model, the one with the 6SL6 driver tube? Mine is one from last year with a 12AX7 and 12AT7 tube in the front.
    - Re: Welcome to the picked on club! - dozer 16:19:44 12/19/04 (2)
      It's the 2005 model, it has two 12AU7s. It did have nice binding posts and an Auricap in each amp (although since then I've heard a lot of audiophiles don't like them - but hey at least Dared is trying). I wish it took a 12AX7 in the preamp because I have a load of cool telefunken, mullard and bugleboy 12AX7's from guitar amps. Don't have a single 12AU7 on hand, but I ordered a few and should get them next week.
      If anybody knows if it's safe to put a 12AX7 in either of the two slots - please do let me know. But I don't want to just put one in as an experiment since they have so much more gain than a 12AU7 - don't want to fry something. If mine took 12AX7 and 12AT7 up front I'd be better off since I have good American/English/German versions of those tubes.
      - Re: Welcome to the picked on club! - timb5881 19:30:08 12/19/04 (1)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Welcome to the picked on club! posted by dozer on December 19, 2004 at 16:19:44:
        
        Well, there are some big differences between 12ax7 and 12au7 tubes. My suggestion is try some of the EI 12AU7 tubes, I like those, as well as some nice NOS 5814 JAN tubes that can be had at a good price. The 12AX7 has a higher mu (100) than a 12AU7 (20), so you would probubly over load something down the line if you tried 12AX7 tubes in it.
        
        12ax7 is not a safe sub for 12au7... - JJ Triode 23:30:22 12/19/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Welcome to the picked on club! posted by timb5881 on December 19, 2004 at 19:30:08:
        
        ...in most cases. There are various equivalents and near equivalents, and various opinions about the best 12au7s or subs. Do a search!
Dared VP-300B Amplifier (Tube) - msa 07:23:41 12/18/04 (0)
Been here before with all the naysayers, but I agree with you completely. I also had two Dared 845's which I enjoyed very much and were sold - to pleased buyers - because I'm down to 3-7 watts. Enjoy your amp.
I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) - dozer 22:31:57 12/17/04 (14)
I don't know what good guts look like versus bad guts.. but I have a pic of the inside of one of these. If you can evaluate it I'll email it to you, or maybe you can post it (I don't know how). Anyway - if you want to see the inside, I have it.
Man, I don't know if this amp is great, ok, or lousy. All I'm saying is that it really works. It sounds really good with my Audio note ANE-SPs.
Anyway - I'll share the pic with anyone - detractor or supporter.
I'm interested if someone thinks this is a possible candidate for mods.
- How does the Dared stack up to the Audio Note Soro SE? - Frank E 09:35:26 12/18/04 (2)
  Seeing you've had both driving your Audio Note ANE/Sp's.
  - Well I just did compare them - dozer 15:53:06 12/18/04 (0)
    I did the best I could - being kind of afraid to idle either amp because I've read that on guitar amps anyway running them without a speaker load is a humongous no-no. Maybe I'll compare more later, but it's hard to get any fast enough switching going on to get a real sense that I'm comparing correctly.
    Anyway, I played Bolero on each amp in turn, since I saw on another thread that it was a good test of dynamic range. I kept half an eye on the SPL meter and they both pretty much performed the same - the final peak hit 95db at my listening position maybe 7 feet out in an equilateral triangle from the corner loaded speakers. Then I also played some more pop music on the Soro in the same room to get a feel for how much that was playing into it.
    Well, with all the same disclaimers as my original review I'll try to compare.
    The Soro enjoys those extra watts for one thing. The extra slam was nice on The Commitments stuff because I was able to crank it ungodly loud and clean in my new little room - louder than the little 300B.
    When played close to level-matched as on Bolero, well the Soro has a more refined presentation - a more disciplined presentation. The 300b is livelier though - more immediate. I don't know if this is a difference in topology? I just don't know.
    I'd have to say the Soro is "more amp". But comparing them didn't diminish my enthusiasm for the little Dared. Something about the sound I am still attracted to. I'll still sell the Soro if I get an offer. If it takes a long time to sell the Soro I might change my mind and decide I want to be able to head bang - which I can DEFINITELY do with the Soro and ANE/Sp, and can KINDA do with the Dared, but not the same concrete cracking degree.
    Is it OK to idle tube hifi amps without a speaker load or input?
  - Re: How does the Dared stack up to the Audio Note Soro SE? - dozer 10:28:52 12/18/04 (0)
    I haven't had them in the same room side-by-side. I don't say it is equal or better than the Soro, but the Soro is for sale for the very practical reason that I can probably fetch a decent price for it, and the 300b sounds quite "good enough" to me. I am not even going to play them side-by-side. Can you imagine what hell would rain on me if I said it was just as good as the Soro (or P2SE)? But if you want to buy my Soro at a very market competitive price, email me off line. If you check my agon ad for the Soro, you'll see the Dared in the background. If my only system was going to be in a biggish room I'd keep the Soro for the extra SPL.
    I'm trying to be careful in how I say this... for a guy to chill in his bedroom with sweet tunes - well I don't know if I could enjoy another amp by a factor of 200-500% more than this one, so I'm going to settle in and enjoy this phase I'm in. I guess maybe one day I'll buy something that sounds better - if I stumble over a bargain or something. I don't deny that I may outgrow this amp, or it may break, or whatever. ALL I tried to say is that it was well worth the $600 and I stand by that. I've never bought a piece of gear for $600 that made me happier.
- Re: I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) - Thorsten 06:19:05 12/18/04 (10)
  Hi,
  If you have the picture in an electronic format, you can go to www.imageshack.us and upload the picture there. The page after upload will give you all the code you need to embedd the picture in a message here.
  Use the code line that starts something like:
  And simply paste it into the text of you reply.
  Sayonara
  - Re: I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) - dozer 10:43:28 12/18/04 (9)
    [IMG]http://img99.exs.cx/img99/7637/prettyclearguts6et.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://img99.exs.cx/img99/5835/clearpowersupply5ki.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]http://img99.exs.cx/img99/8707/nottooclosegutspic6sy.jpg[/IMG]
    
    If this doesn't work - maybe someone can clean it up for me and post correctly?
    - http://[IMG]http://img99.exs.cx/img99/5835/clearpowersupply5ki.jpg[/IMG] (Open in New Window)
    - Re: I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) - Thorsten 11:12:29 12/18/04 (8)
      Hi,
      It did not work because you did not follow my instructions which line to copy. The right way gives the result below.
      
      Some basic comments on this.
      In one picture we see a 100uF/250V capacitor touching a power resistor (680R) which is likely the cathode RC combo of the Amplifier. The Resistor will get quite hot in operation (especially being only a 15W type and with no heatsink or other cooling) and will heat up the capacitor, reducing significantly the lifespan. Once that capacitor shorts out it's usually also good buy 300B.
      The use of 680R for the cathode resistor is worrying too, it will result most likely in rather higher than specified current through the 300B, leading to a fairly quick aging of the Output valve (it does provide more power though than traditional operating conditions).
      This capacitor and another one also look ill fitted inside, as if the designed called for something smaller in size which they run out of.
      In the big powersupply the torroidal transformer touches one of the main powersupply capacitors. This power transformer most likely will run pretty hot, the result will be premature aging of the capacitor, I'm pretty sure the other capacitor will also get quite hot.
      Component quality is pretty average, with the possible exception that a "audiophile brand" Auricap is used as one of the (aparently) two coupling capacitors, I don't personally think much of them and better options actually exist, at ant extent, the second coupling capacitor appears to be generic chinese MKP, the rest of circuit and components appear generic.
      The assembly quality and general design still leave questions (especially the excessive cramping of hot circuitry which cannot be considered a good thing as it cuts down the lifeexpectance of the relevant compoinentry drastically), the assebly appears a little above the standards of what I have previosuly seen by dared, at least they somehow managed to fit all capaictors instead of placing the off-board with long wirs and stuck down with hot melt glue.
      I would make sure that you know who will repair the Amp's when (not if) some of those capaitors throw in the towel.
      Ciao T
      - Re: I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) - dozer 12:52:28 12/21/04 (1)
        
        In Reply to: Re: I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) posted by Thorsten on December 18, 2004 at 11:12:29:
        
        http://img72.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img72&image=clearpowersupply3sm.jpg
        http://img72.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img72&image=gapbetweentransformerandcap9eb.jpg
        After I read this feedback I went in for another look because I suspected my camera angle was the culprit (and also to bend that one cap away from 680R). I also checked the other amp and the cap was bent the other way - not touching 680R in that amp.
        Just to be fair to the manufacturer, I have to show that my original picture displayed an illusion. The power transformer does not touch the cap. I don't argue that it might be too close - that's for engineers to debate. But I will say that the amp runs cool to the touch after continuous play of several hours.
        Just don't want to leave an incorrect impression about the power supply. If these pics don't show - could someone do me the kindness of fixing it so they do show?
        
        Re: I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) - Thorsten 13:02:32 12/21/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) posted by dozer on December 21, 2004 at 12:52:28:
        
        Hi,
        Good to know the amplifier run cool, I still suspect the resistor will get quite warm. Also, how hot does the supply get?
        BTW, a traditional failing with chinese gear is also overvoltage, you might just want to measure the key voltages in the amplifiern namely:
        1) across the 300B heater - those are the two larger diameter pins - should be 5V +/-5V
        2) Across the 680 R Cathode resistor of the 300B - should be around 55V typhically for long life, more than 68V indicate a 300B operated past it's absolute maximum ratings.
        3) Across the anode to one of the heater Pins, typhically, for long life I would expect < 350V
        As said previously, both coupling capacitors (the Auricap and the Yellow block) can do with upgrading, the two cathode bypass capacitors (the ones lying down and untidily fitted) would be next targets, plus if you find the 300B is pushed hard operation wise a 820R or 1K cathode resistor. The powersupply is extremely basic too, not much point overding it there, best to just build a new one, similar style as Border Patrol if you want to go past the original.
        Ciao T
      - Re: I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) - dozer 09:12:29 12/19/04 (1)
        
        In Reply to: Re: I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) posted by Thorsten on December 18, 2004 at 11:12:29:
        
        If I lived in UK, and brought you that amp to fix/mod/hotrod - whatever... how much would I spend to get it built so it will be reliable and sound optimal (within whatever design limits are inherent)? Around $200? $400?
        You know the funny thing is, money is not THAT big an object. I could have spent a couple thousand if I believed the value was there. But I just wanted to try SET without a big financial commitment. Every gear I've bought or sold I have gotten KILLED on resale, so I wanted to keep my risk low.
        So from that standpoint, even if I sell this amp for only $200 (can I get a few buck extra for the power tubes)?, then it wasn't as painful a transaction financially as 90% of my other audio deals on an absolute "lost dollars" basis. Percentage wise, yeah it would sting but that was the point of keeping my exposure low.
        But anyway - how much do you think would be reasonable to invest (given that I have already come this far)?
        
        Re: I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) - Thorsten 11:21:18 12/19/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) posted by dozer on December 19, 2004 at 09:12:29:
        
        Hi,
        > If I lived in UK, and brought you that amp to fix/mod/hotrod -
        > whatever... how much would I spend to get it built so it will
        > be reliable and sound optimal
        I'd likely say "Thanks but no thanks". The chassis is by far too cramped to run cool and there is no space for high performance components etc....
        > You know the funny thing is, money is not THAT big an object.
        Then, if you want more of that 300B Sound, more reliable and all that I suggest you try the DIY-HiFisupply "Lady Day Plus" kit, with the "Type 91" option, TJ Mesh Anode output Valves, Tent Labs Filament Supply and fully assembled, shipped out of HK to you for around $ US 2,400 and tax/duties. You might find these to be a material set up from the Soro and Co, never mind the Dared, assuming Money is not a major object.
        > But anyway - how much do you think would be reasonable to invest
        > (given that I have already come this far)?
        I would invest only into better driver valves and I'd suggest you consider re-housing the power supply into a larger, uglier case with more space between transformers and capacitors.
        Also, i would likely suggest you replace the 680R Cathode resistor with one more apropriate even if that means less power, you cann use a 1K chassis mounted power resistor mounted off board to get the main heatsource away from the Electrolytic capacitors.
        Then maybe replace the cathode electrolytic on the 300B with Black gate and replace the coupling capacitors with something better, but all of this is a lot of work. At a reasonable (in London at least) 35 Pound UK per Hour plus VAT that will quickly get expensive. If you go for DIY it's a different story, then you can scratch the labour cost and do what is needed to do probably for < $ 100. Of course, in reality the factory should have done a decent job to start with, but the didn't.
        Ciao T
      - Re: I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) - dozer 11:32:49 12/18/04 (1)
        
        In Reply to: Re: I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) posted by Thorsten on December 18, 2004 at 11:12:29:
        
        Maybe I better hang on to that Soro after all, or the P2, for a backup if this needs to go to the shop.
        I am glad this discussion has moved past name-calling and into technical specifics.
        
        Re: I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) - Thorsten 11:43:01 12/18/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) posted by dozer on December 18, 2004 at 11:32:49:
        
        Hi,
        > Maybe I better hang on to that Soro after all, or the P2,
        > for a backup if this needs to go to the shop.
        I don't expect it to go bang next week (though you never know), more like 6 Month-1 Year, depending upon frequency of use and such...
        Ciao T
      - Thank you - dozer 11:24:44 12/18/04 (1)
        
        In Reply to: Re: I can send a pic of guts (just opened up) posted by Thorsten on December 18, 2004 at 11:12:29:
        
        Thanks. In your instructions there was a part I didn't understand - it was just a strange paintbrush icon on my screen. But I appreciate you fixing it anyway - I hoped I had put enough info out there for somebody to work with.
        Well, at least now the cat is out of the bag about what these guts look like. Like I said in a different post, I'll just take it to the local antique radio/tube guru and let him at it if/when it breaks. Maybe before then to "hotrod" it - who knows.
        I guess if I were a shill, I would have picked a better specimen to photograph? Or moved some wires first, or just declined to post pics knowing they would embarrass? Anyway - hopefully everyone knows I'm not in the Dared distribution business by now. I'm interested in any other feedback on the photos - and I thank you again for your technical help posting them.
        
        Re: Thank you - Tre' 18:15:14 12/18/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Thank you posted by dozer on December 18, 2004 at 11:24:44:
        
        "Like I said in a different post, I'll just take it to the local antique radio/tube guru and let him at it if/when it breaks. Maybe before then to "hotrod" it - who knows."
        I think you have the right attitude there.
        When, or maybe before, it breaks you can look into some upgrade possibilities. (better caps, better resistors, a better operating point, etc...) Also, if the space allowes, the layout could be improved on.
        Do enjoy it and "don't you let nobody get you down, get you down........"
        Tre'
        .
        
        Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
        "Still working the problem"
"I'm not a shill for Dared" - Caymus 18:16:55 12/17/04 (14)
Dared has the dishonest (and disgusting) reputation for continually posting self-fabricated reviews all over the Web. First tip-off is their "reviewer" is unknown, has never posted before and strangely never after (except to praise Dared).
Every credible review so far has slammed their products as low quality and poor sounding junk. I hope Dare will learn one day, to succeed it takes more than deception and lying.
- Yeah, of course he's not... - Robert H. 18:40:18 12/17/04 (8)
  he "protesteth too much" as they say...
  Anyways, who cares if he's a shill or not? By now, Dared is so thoroughly discredited for shill reviews that anyone posting a review is pretty much automatically lumped with the shills.
  Why on earth, given the deep history of shilling by Dared, would anyone think that, by registering today and posting a lovely Dared review right away, he will do anything but add to the shitty reputation for dishonest shilling Dared has worked hard to earn, is beyond me.
  - Re: Yeah, of course he's not... - Caymus 19:01:43 12/17/04 (7)
    Yeah, I can�t figure out their bizarre marketing strategy either.
    Maybe this is a natural result from decades of Maoist and Communist propaganda. Since Mao and Stalin wrote democracy and capitalism is evil and corrupt, Dared may think lying and cheating is the only way everyone succeeds in the West.
    - Sony does it - RGA 11:46:50 12/18/04 (0)
      They shilled movies under theirlable by writing great reviews for their films - you look up the reviewer's name and it turned out he didn't exist - made up by the marketing department.
      The industry is horrible.
    - It's the US dist. I'd bet - Ed Sawyer 08:10:21 12/18/04 (2)
      Personally, I suspect the bad marketing strategy of shill reviews and such is from whatever US distributor(s) they are using now, or from gray-market importers that are bringing it in. I highly doubt the Chinese Dared people would have the wherewithal or even the inclination to bother doing something like shill reviews (assuming they could write one credibly in English). More than likely the profiteers that are bringing it in to pimp on the web for a quick buck. Like most chinese companies, I would think Dared would sell to anyone, so they likely are not controlling distribution tightly if at all.
      Their stuff (like much chinese stuff, except maybe those longstanding brands like ASL), stresses too much on cosmetics and not enough on quality internal parts. Marginally-rated passive parts, under-specced trannies - these are the hallmarks of dared (and ming-da, meixing, et al). Along with machined/anodized aluminum 'jewelry' on the outside, flashy paint jobs, cheap wood accents, and pre-polished chassis made of stainless. If they put half the effort they put into cosmetics into the passive parts and developing unique circuits (instead of copying many-years-old well-known circuits which were ho-hum to begin with), they might actually get somewhere. It's probably good that they don't, otherwise it would cut into the US market even more than it does already.
      Enjoy it, but be aware it's a $200 amp at best probably, despite the 'looks' factor. yes it would be ripe for mods, but IMNSHO, not worth the bother. Better to start with a better base for mods to begin with.
      -Ed
      - Re: It's the US dist. I'd bet - dozer 11:12:43 12/18/04 (1)
        
        In Reply to: It's the US dist. I'd bet posted by Ed Sawyer on December 18, 2004 at 08:10:21:
        
        Do you say it's a $200 amp because that's what comparable gear sells for in the market? Is $200 a formula based on the parts cost, manufacturing cost, distribution cost, and reasonable profit? What's the frame of reference for "it's a $200 amp"?
        I think what you are calling shills might just be people who are excited to try SETS but can't take a big dollar plunge. The ferocity of some killjoys on this site is startling (I don't mean you Ed).
        Maybe it's just a $200 300B set. Well, what's so wrong with that I guess is my question? It's a fun change from solid state. Maybe it captures a fraction of what the big dollar SETs deliver for a fraction of the dollars. As long as those fractions aren't too out of whack - what is wrong with it?
        
        thoguhts - Ed Sawyer 12:06:09 12/18/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: It's the US dist. I'd bet posted by dozer on December 18, 2004 at 11:12:43:
        
        $200 is what the retail price in china is, most likely. Stuff over there sells for probably 1/4 to 1/3 what the US retail is, generally. And it reflects on the parts content, yes.
        Hey, if you are having fun with it, good for you. Just as long as you know what it is, what to expect and what not to expect, then all is well. (E.g. don't expect the qualities of a $2000 DIY 300B amp).
        enjoy
        -Ed
    - I'm willing to take "Dozer" at his word... - Ivan303 19:20:30 12/17/04 (2)
      He really didn't make any outrageous claims. Just that was shipped quickly, worked out of the box and sounds better than solid state.
      Plus, Chinese made audio gear has taken more than its share of hits on these boards, but you have hit a nail on the head regards how some folks from the old commie countries try to become capitalists.
      Lordy, just look what's going on in Russia, with their attempts to privatize their oil industry.
      OTOH, we have guys Joseph Lau of ASL and the folks a Consonance who really do a good job of producing good sounding gear at reasonable prices. And support it in the market.
      Then there are companies that deal mainly on Ebay and Audiogon like Kalin (still around?) and Dared.
      But, if you had to make the choice between a Dared 300B amp and a crappy Panasonic SS amp, which would you choose?
      Terrible thought, huh?
      - Re: I'm willing to take "Dozer" at his word... - SETdude 07:08:11 12/20/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: I'm willing to take "Dozer" at his word... posted by Ivan303 on December 17, 2004 at 19:20:30:
        
        I think he just got a taste of SET and is amazed. Like sex w/o a'raincoat'. Just be aware that it can get much better w/o breaking the bank.
        
        BTW, I have never heard the Dared.
      - In defense of Kailin.... - yrly 11:35:48 12/19/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: I'm willing to take "Dozer" at his word... posted by Ivan303 on December 17, 2004 at 19:20:30:
        
        While I may not post often around this forum, a look around will show I am not new to this game. I have a Kailin EL84 amp, not the older Ming Da/Meixing designs that were known for their burned out transformers, but the newer wood cubed design ones that have been floating around Audiogon and Ebay. Actually it is very nicely designed for the most part. Could use better coupling caps (something I may consider for a future upgrade), but the rest of it is not badly designed at all. It has a nice solid wood case, nice ceramic tube sockets. All point to point with silver wire, no circuit boards. Fans push air up through the bottom of the unit cooling the inside and out a slot at the top blowing the air over the output tubes. The design is well thought out. Uses rather hefty trannies, the tiny cube tips the scale at nearly 25lbs. Nice metal cased Alps volume control. Actually I am pretty sure that aside from perhaps the case and the stock tubes that shipped with it other than assembly none of it is chinese in origin. Much better than their old stuff, actually decently disigned and thought out, and yes Kailin is still around selling some rediculously expensive (by chinese standards) 300B monoblocks for a couple thousand $. The smaller amps seem well enough designed to last (I have had mine a year so far and it still works quite well), would be good for a bedroom or something.
- Re: "I'm not a shill for Dared" - dozer 18:29:36 12/17/04 (4)
  I'm not trying to talk anyone out of their money. I don't make any claims except that it is hum free, problem free out of the box, and is cool for my situation. I can afford more expensive stuff. On ebay I'm Dozer95662 and on audiogon I'm Dozer. Watch while I sell my Soro and my P2-PP, to see if I'm "real". If you're in Sacramento you can come over and see/hear for yourself - email me your ph and I'll call you to arrange it.
  I am going to see just how mean-spirited audiophiles can be though.. and watch with amusement. I wasn't able to tell if any of those other people were real customers or not, so I was a little nervous. But I know who I am. That you would attack an anonymous person tells me something about you and whoever packs up with you.
  My "review" is completely sincere. I don't need to be "somebody" in your chat world. Sorry you feel the need to attack.
  When I bought the amp on audiogon, I checked google and was led to all the threads on this board. Gosh I was afraid the thing wouldn't work at all - or would blow up in front of me, or make my ears bleed.
  This board should be to give honest feedback to people. I haven't seen the "credible" reviews which dissed this particular product. All I saw as I searched was mean spirited attacks. More dishonest than any over-the-top rookie review is to attack a product you haven't heard. I mean that is really lame.
  The guy (Joe) has perfect ebay and audiogon feedback. Speaks for itself. I'm just a guy who got exactly what he ordered... got it pretty fast too considering the holidays.
  - Re: "I'm not a shill for Dared" - joel928s4 13:42:34 12/30/04 (0)
    I am very surprised at the crap you people are giving Dozer for giving his review. I purchased a set of Dared 300B mono blocks from Joe via E-bay and had received an E-mail from Joe shortly after my purchase encouraging me to post a review of the amp on audio boards like this one. Perhaps this is what prompted Dozer to write his review but as someone who thoroughly researches each purchase I appreciate reviews like his from people who know a thing or two about hi-fi gear. It is amazing to me (being a Porsche guy) to see more support from that group (of people who are known for being �jerks�) than I am seeing here.
    I bought my Dared VP-300B mono blocks to drive my Klipschorns and after connecting them and hearing them I too was amazed. I had owned my K-horns for 12 years and never heard them through tube amps. I am now upgrading the caps and tubes and plan on keeping these amps and perhaps even buying another set from Joe so that I can bi-amp my K-horns. I will be reading this board for advice and would appreciate honest answers from fellow enthusiasts. Please realize that guys like me who are DIY people are buying these amps and don�t want to sell you anything but would appreciate your expert advise and to learn from your experiences. Thank you, Joel
  - Re: "I'm not a shill for Dared" - Kloss 08:02:51 12/18/04 (2)
    many others have schilled for dared on the sylum.If you are honest with your review great but after all the dared schills.Dont think too many will believe you.I owned a dared vp 16 integrated ,Thing worked for a few months then started to run hot and to produce a smell after a bit it output DC to 1 of my loudspeakers roasting the raven r2 tweeter.Turned out some parts moved about inside I was able to repair and it is working fine .Sometimes you do get what you paid for.It did sound ok but have heard better for the same cash .Also who fixes dared? Where would you send it for warrenty repair?I couldnt find anywhere .This dared was purchase on agon.
    - http://www.audiocraftersguild.com/Xtreme/xtreme.htm (Open in New Window)
    - If it breaks I will post that it broke - dozer 10:18:07 12/18/04 (1)
      I agree there's a risk - I don't have a warranty. If it breaks I plan to take it to my local antique radio shop and fix/mod it. Certainly a dice roll. But I'll say this - my experience with warrantees is that they're nothing but a distraction. Suppose I could ship this amp back to the manufacturer and have it repaired free? Well for the time and shipping money I'd lose I'd rather have a local guy fix it/mod it - or just buy something else. I've heard plenty of guys who have their gear at the Audio Note factory for months on end... so big f'in deal about warranty imho.
      I promise to post the good with the bad. I don't have an axe to grind about this piece of gear or a financial stake in Joe's business.
      I have to go read some of those other responses now (this is the first one I've seen yet today).. I'm interested to learn the REAL intelligence of some of the AA bigshots - those who insist I'm Joe, or I'm in bed with Joe, or I'm in China, or I have a financial stake in the product, or any of that... well they're plain wrong and I think actually quite stupid. Those who racially profile Asians, or who still use the word "commie"... well what are you going to say to that kind of person?
      - I see you are selling the AN gear - Kloss 10:54:42 12/18/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: If it breaks I will post that it broke posted by dozer on December 18, 2004 at 10:18:07:
        
        Your adds up from my Von Gaylord starlet add :)I owned a soro a few back it was nice but not as nice as SET.At least too me.
        http://steinman.mesls.org/stereo/J Kalinoski Loudspeakers 101.jpg (Open in New Window)
Dared VP-300B Amplifier (Tube) - GTCharlie 17:26:02 12/17/04 (0)
Hi Dozer. I suspect you're right. I've had the fortune to listen to several Chinese gear recently and they do sound great. At prices a third or a fourth of a similar product made in Europe or USA. Maybe because of lower labor cost, but more likely, their manufacturers are content with a just a little profit ... Ask your dealer if he stocks Consonance CD players (same manufacturer as your pre-amp).

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Product Weakness:	I don't know.. I guess they don't cost enough to have credibility or something? Seem great for my purpose. I hope and pray that the real expensive 300B amps do some stuff better - maybe more bass slam?
Product Strengths:	liquid mids and microdynamics. very beautiful. Dead quiet transformers..