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In Reply to: jealous posted by drobo on July 16, 2002 at 22:02:21:
>>Morse, McLaughlin, DiMeola, Vai, Satriani, Keneally, Beck, Hammett, Hackett, Howe, Bonilla<<Jealousy doesn't enter into it. Here are a bunch of guys that can play the shit out of a guitar, but can't write a song worth caring about. Not that I think Jimmy Page is the be all, end all guitarist, but he's written more worth listening to than all these guys put together ten times over. Page at his best is practically a novice compared to any of these guys technically. Just goes to show you that knowing how to play and writing a decent song are two very different things. Feel is more important than technical ability.
Follow Ups:
Well, it all depends on your frame of reference. I just turned 40, and I don't have a single Led Zeppelin album. Never have. On the other hand, I have about sixty Zappa albums, and buy everything that Mike Keneally records. Viva la difference.Here's something to think about. Comparing the solo work of the surviving Led Zeppelin members, it makes you wonder if Page didn't take credit for a lot of John Paul Jones's ideas.
Wouldn't be the first time he pulled a stunt like that. 8-)
Being clever for the sake of being clever ain't my cuppa...how about a tune?As to Pagey ripping off JPJ, I'd say heroin has more to do with the low quality of his post Zep output. Sure, Zep ripped off some old blues tunes in the early days, but so did every one of the old blues players.
Well, frankly, I wouldn't expect a rabid Led Zeppelin fan to appreciate Zappa. Like I said, different opinions are what makes the world go around.Have you listened to JPJ's albums "Zooma" or "The Thunder Thief"? He plays about twelve instruments, and covers styles varying between King Crimson style industrial metal to raunchy blues using a slide on bass dobro.
Plant did three polished, boring albums for the VH1 crowd. Page did the awful "Deathwish II" soundtrack, an album with Plant, and an album with David Coverdale, who sounds like Plant.
Based on this evidence, I would say that the writing in Led Zeppelin was more of a collaborative effort than Plant/Page would like you to believe.
I do find your excuse for Page's solo output amusing. Are you saying he wasn't doing drugs while he was in Led Zeppelin?
I wasn't just referring to the Willie Dixon/Sonny Boy Williamson thing, which by the way was absolutely shameful. Listen to the Jeff Beck Group album "Truth" and you will see what I mean. I don't think Jimmy Page has an original bone in his body.
> > Have you listened to JPJ's albums "Zooma" or "The Thunder Thief"? He plays about twelve instruments, and covers styles varying between King
Crimson style industrial metal to raunchy blues using a slide on bass dobro. < <I've heard them, but didn't really care for them. When I listen to music I'm not impressed by a mastery of diverse styles or virtuosity or tongue in cheek cleverness for more than about one listen. A lasting impression requires expression and communication of emotion.
> > Plant did three polished, boring albums for the VH1 crowd. Page did the awful "Deathwish II" soundtrack, an album with Plant, and an album with David Coverdale, who sounds like Plant. < <
Watch it, that last statement has you close to losing all credibility. Coverdale may have tried to imitate Plant, but he never sounded like him.
> > Based on this evidence, I would say that the writing in Led Zeppelin was more of a collaborative effort than Plant/Page would like you to believe. < <
There is absolutely no question that even early Zep was more than the sum of its parts. By the time Bonham died, they were already wandering off towards irrelevance. It's not surprising the solo efforts were dodgy, including several from JPJ.
Btw, JPJ and Bonzo both receive song credits on Zep albums. You can't really criticize how the group credit themselves. Perhaps you got credit for the song if you wrote the primary riff? There is no doubt that Zep's rythym section pretty much wrote their own parts on all the songs and that they were crucial to the sound of the band. That they did not continue on after Bonzo died is credit to how much Zep felt he was integral to their sound.
More unforgivable, however, is deciding to leave JPJ out of the Page/Plant effort a few years back. I can think of several reasons why they left him out, but none of them particularly good ones.
> > I do find your excuse for Page's solo output amusing. Are you saying he wasn't doing drugs while he was in Led Zeppelin? < <
He was, but it takes a while to get a hold on you. Also, I don't think the heroin started right away.
> > I wasn't just referring to the Willie Dixon/Sonny Boy Williamson thing, which by the way was absolutely shameful. Listen to the Jeff Beck Group album "Truth" and you will see what I mean. < <
Why? Because they both cover "You Shook Me"? I've got "Truth" and I don't see what you mean. They are at least as different as Soundgarden and Pearl Jam. That they sound similar is no surprise. The albums came out virtually at the same time, each headed by two guys that had very recently been in the same group!
And there is no getting around the fact that Zep did the style much, much better.
> > I don't think Jimmy Page has an original bone in his body. < <
Perhaps not anymore. But he did once. I'll grant you that he may not ever have been *exceptionally* original, but since when is originality a requirement for good music? A small amount is generally necessary, but IMO, it's actually detrimental to the music in 99.9% of cases if taken very far at all. The effort of pushing the envelope tends to hinder expression, i.e. it sounds like the artist is straining to be different.
Jimmy Page is a brilliant guitarist, both technically and creatively. I disagree that the two are mutually exclusive, and he's a poster child to prove you wrong. David Gilmour is another one.I understand you not liking the style of music, but disliking the sheer ability to play is insane. Steves Hackett and Howe and Al Di Meola, in particular, I would take issue with, in their inability to write decent music.
Thanks for the support dude.....you on the bus....
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