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In Reply to: Re: Theorize however you will posted by Mudcat on December 1, 2004 at 04:28:57:
So, your saying a $1500 power cord is a filter.
Not exactly. Two $1000 cords and one $800 cord provide higher resolution than two $500 and one $350 cords with my system.Why not just add a 100 dollar Tripplite Isobar power conditioner? According to what you just implied, it will do the same thing
Theory fails you again. If only that were the case...rw
Follow Ups:
The theory is correct; it's your obsession with status symbols that appears to be the problem.
Sorry, but it is your arguement that does not hold water. The water filter analogy is a completely different scenerio in which particulate matter is removed in the last few inches prior to it spilling out into the sink. However, to suggest electronic or signal degradation that the miles of industrial grade copper, steel, and aluminum cable inflect upon your system prior to your household outlet is suddenly removed by another piece of wire that contains no filtration circuitry but base on design only is bogus.Have you actually dissected one of these "high end" power cords. Please do so and be forthright in telling all exactly what is inside. I'm willing to bet a bundle that it is no more than good quality run of the mill power cord with a fancy covering.
If instead of putting $1350 into power cords you put that into room treatments, or even better electronics, do you think you system would sound better? (A real good parametric EQ could do the same thing at a fifth of the cost.)
Evidently, I must be missing something here and I am thankful for it.
However, to suggest electronic or signal degradation that the miles of industrial grade copper, steel, and aluminum cable inflect upon your system prior to your household outlet is suddenly removed by another piece of wire that contains no filtration circuitry but base on design only is bogus.
It's only bogus when both of your operative assumptions are incorrect.1. Quite a few aftermarket power cords have filters either in line with the cord (look at the "sausage" with the Palladians) and/or have filter networks built in to both connectors and/or have special RF shielding (as with my JPS Labs).
2. The RF and other noise source villains are usually located within your house, some as nearby as your digital source(s).
I'm willing to bet a bundle that it is no more than good quality run of the mill power cord with a fancy covering.
And apparently willing to lose a bundle based upon your uninformed guess.If instead of putting $1350 into power cords you put that into room treatments, or even better electronics, do you think you system would sound better?
I have a dedicated room with three lenses, two acoustic panels, and eight bass traps. Do you think I need more? As for better electronics, I don't think I could improve any one of my components for $1,350. $13,500, yes. Perhaps you might take a look at my system (click my monitor and follow to system details of "The Cave") and make a suggestion I might have missed. I'm all ears.*** A real good parametric EQ could do the same thing at a fifth of the cost. *** (evidently, the html tags are not "allowed" with your comment here! )
If by "same thing" you're referring to taming the low end, I prefer using treatments which also improve focus and imaging.
Here's an idea: sometime you might actually try experiencing what everyone is observing rather than merely speculating. You may find it challenges your theories. Based upon your closing remarks, perhaps not.
rw
Quite frankly the assumptions are really coming from you. You give no facts; just your listening impressions. Did it ever occur to you that many of us don't take your listening impressions seriously?
d.b.
1. ... is suddenly removed by another piece of wire that contains no filtration circuitry but base on design only is bogus.2. I'm willing to bet a bundle that it is no more than good quality run of the mill power cord with a fancy covering.
3. If instead of putting $1350 into power cords you put that into room treatments, or even better electronics, do you think you system would sound better?
You'll note that none of those has to do with my listening experiences or preferences.
rw
Impressive System. Here's mine, not as impressive, but it serves as a multitrack track recording system too.http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2380
Two comments system:
1 - The chairs look like patio furniture from the back, I hoping they are more comfortable than they look
2 - I'm taking a WAG that the white towers are bass traps. Not have a view of the back of the room, are there traps in those corners too?
Now onto your reply.
Can't comment on much other than the fact that your willing to spend a lot of money for minimal gain (How does the shielding of a power cable affect an existing signal?).
Here's an idea: sometime you might actually try experiencing what everyone is observing rather than merely speculating. You may find it challenges your theories. Based upon your closing remarks, perhaps not.I have tried (and measured) a lot of what I consider BS alternatives to better sound. I've tested speaker cables, IC, even power cords. In each instance, using a plethora of test tones and some pretty accurate gear, I've attempted to find differences, and have found some. But where I can find them, I can correlate those to basic parametric values such as resistance, inductance, and capacitance. The only bad part of all this is that it is in my basement listening room, not a controled lab.
"How does the shielding of a power cable affect an existing signal?)."
Hi Mudcat: Shielding in this case should reduce the amount of radiated interference coming from the 120 volts on the power cord itself and help reduce anything radiated onto the power cord. It will also provide a more robust connection to earth ground since the shield is connected to earth, typically at both ends of the Line cord. Just a note: Vollex #17660 has double shielded 18 AWG line cord with a foil and braid shield. You can typically get them for about 10 to 13 dollars each. So I think in all fairness we can add an additional 10 to 13.00 for each unit that he plugs into the Isobar. That should still leave plenty of money for more important things as you point out.
d.b.
Yes, but it will not remove existing noise - which was my point.
Holy rackmount, Batman. You have lotsa components!The settings to the 351 EQ on the right seem reasonable for cancelling room nodes. The settings on the center mounted BSR unit, however, look like a roller coaster ride with ALL the sliders in various boosted positions. Is that one presently in the signal chain?
Your comment about my "screen door" chairs is funny. Yes, they are inexpensive, yet reasonably comfortable Ikea chairs. The white towers are indeed DIY traps. I haven't had the chance to complete the job by covering them with some grey doubleknit cloth. The eight are arrayed with three in the front, three in rear, and the remaining two half way up the side walls.
How does the shielding of a power cable affect an existing signal?.
From a theoretical basis, I have no idea. My profession is computer science. I do find, however, that we do not yet have all the empiracal answers as to what measurements correlate with critical listening tests. The audible result is a subtle improvement in stage width, depth cues, and vocal articulation. Using JWC's "sausages" (the Palladians), the choral voices on Gustav Holst's Hymns from Rig Veda are to die for. The separate voices are rendered so softly, sweetly and simply hang in the air.In each instance, using a plethora of test tones and some pretty accurate gear, I've attempted to find differences, and have found some.
I seriously doubt anyone will find differences using test tones. The improvements I detect are largely spatial and harmonically related.rw
I wish I knew HTML well enough to make quotes.The BSR has sliders that light up, the only time it is ever used is when I'm using the either or both of the tape players, otherwise it is the only thing my five year old daughter is allowed to touch (she likes it because of the light sliders).
I'll concede you a point about harmonics, I can't measure them - even using pink or white noise.
They really aren't that difficult to use. The challenge with teaching them is that if I entered the tag data, then you would see the result, not the structure. HTML tags usually start with a begin sequence, the "object" of the tags, and and ending sequence. In the following examples, substitute the " <" character for when I use the "[" character and substitute the "> " character for when I use the "]" character.Italics
[i]text to italicize[/i]
Bold
[b]Text in bold[/b]
Center Text [center]Text to center[/center]
Italicized Bold
[i][b]Text in bold and italics[/i][/b]
Insert image from website
[img src="http://www.somewebsite.com/image.jpg"]
Insert link to website (optionally with descriptive text)
[a href="http://www.somewebsite.com]Website Description[/a href]
I use the preview feature frequently to make sure my tags are working properly. Good luck!
rw
Thanks, I printed it out.
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