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In Reply to: RE: Wha? The player was Pioneer? That wasn't in the paper. posted by Axon on September 11, 2007 at 21:35:38
>That is one of the sore points of the paper - the equipment is not at all
>described.
To my regret, I have not yet read the paper as my JAES has not yet arrived.
> How did you determine that?
Earlier in this thread, it was stated that the BAS homepage listed the
equipment used by Meyer and Moran.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Follow Ups:
For the record:
(1) The Pioneer player mentioned on the BAS site was used for a few early tests. It certainly did have a lower noise floor than the CD link and clearly revealed this by being readily detectable, because of the higher audible noise in the CD link, at elevated gain levels we used for a few tests. This is described in the paper.
(2) The high-gain tests also revealed that the Pioneer player had a slightly grainy-sounding nonlinearity in the left channel, audible only with this extremely quiet recording, and only during the room tone. We then tried an expensive ($2000) Sony player, which was clean, and did most of the tests with a Yamaha DVD-S1500.
(3) Our tests had no desired outcome. We searched diligently for, would have been happy to find, a combination of a recording, playback system and test subject that revealed sonic differences at normal listening levels, and even happier to learn how to pass that test ourselves.
(4) I did set up a double-blind test of a good cassette deck (using Dolby C) against a CD original at an AES convention in New York. There was no desired outcome there either, except to show people that if you really adjust the deck carefully (which I did frequently throughout the day), passing that test is much harder than you would think. A number of people did pass it, and the set of those that did was in interesting one (to me, if not to TDK). -- E. Brad
.
...but feel encouraged to "comment" anyway? Based on what, exactly?TL
> ...feel encouraged to "comment" anyway?
I think you are misreading what I wrote. I made no comment at all on
the Meyer/Moran tests or conclusions. I merely pointed out: 1) that this
is not the first series of blind tests E. Brad Meyer has been involved
in where a null result appeared to be the desired outcome; and 2) that
the source player used, if it was indeed the Pioneer as noted by other
posters, has a measured dynamic range no better than 16-bit CD, so could
hardly be expected to preserve the hi-rez aspects of the new media.
As I said, my copy of the new JAES issue has not yet arrived. When it
does, I will certainly comment on it if necessary. If that's okay by you?
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Well, all sophistry apart, what you did is basically prejudice its value before even familiarizing yourself with it.I'm also curious where the evidence is that "a null result appeared to be the desired outcome" in this research, since, like you, I haven't read the paper, either.
And yes, thanks so much for asking; we all appreciate reasoned, well-informed, and fair commentary where we can find such.
TL
Why would you choose a dynamically crippled player for such a test if you truly sought a fair and objective answer to the question?
rw
There is absolutely zilch evidence that they chose a dynamically crippled player, The reference to a Pioneer 563A refers to a open day blindtest that BAS conducted way back in October 2004.Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
Unlike any serious "peer reviewed" test worthy of consideration, the systems evaluated were not stated at all. For all we know, they used an iPod.
rw
a
that leaves two possibilities: he is either incompetent or willfully deceptive. Take your pick.
rw
i lean towards 2
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