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Wha? The player was Pioneer? That wasn't in the paper.

70.240.14.48

Axon

In Reply to: RE: Boston Audio Society Strikes Again! posted by John Atkinson on September 11, 2007 at 14:25:47

That is one of the sore points of the paper - the equipment is not at all described. How did you determine that?

Follow Ups:

RE: Wha? The player was Pioneer? That wasn't in the paper. - theaudiohobby 12:04:15 09/13/07 (0)
Neither does the purported article on the BAS site refer to same AES paper, it refers to an article published in the AES magazine earlier than october 2004!
In other basic premise given for knocking the paper is erroneous, Nuff said.
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
- BAS article (Open in New Window)
Edits: 09/13/07 09/13/07
You have to keep up. - Bruce Kendall 15:52:40 09/12/07 (1)
That information came out
- here. (Open in New Window)
- Yeah, didn't catch that post. thanks. -nt - Axon 22:36:30 09/12/07 (0)
  .
RE: Wha? The player was Pioneer? That wasn't in the paper. - John Atkinson 03:54:24 09/12/07 (11)
> That is one of the sore points of the paper - the equipment is not at all
> described.

To my regret, I have not yet read the paper as my JAES has not yet arrived.

> How did you determine that?

Earlier in this thread, it was stated that the BAS homepage listed the
equipment used by Meyer and Moran.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
- RE: Wha? The player was Pioneer? That wasn't in the paper. - EBradMeyer 01:00:38 09/24/07 (0)
  For the record:
  
  (1) The Pioneer player mentioned on the BAS site was used for a few early tests. It certainly did have a lower noise floor than the CD link and clearly revealed this by being readily detectable, because of the higher audible noise in the CD link, at elevated gain levels we used for a few tests. This is described in the paper.
  
  (2) The high-gain tests also revealed that the Pioneer player had a slightly grainy-sounding nonlinearity in the left channel, audible only with this extremely quiet recording, and only during the room tone. We then tried an expensive ($2000) Sony player, which was clean, and did most of the tests with a Yamaha DVD-S1500.
  
  (3) Our tests had no desired outcome. We searched diligently for, would have been happy to find, a combination of a recording, playback system and test subject that revealed sonic differences at normal listening levels, and even happier to learn how to pass that test ourselves.
  
  (4) I did set up a double-blind test of a good cassette deck (using Dolby C) against a CD original at an AES convention in New York. There was no desired outcome there either, except to show people that if you really adjust the deck carefully (which I did frequently throughout the day), passing that test is much harder than you would think. A number of people did pass it, and the set of those that did was in interesting one (to me, if not to TDK). -- E. Brad
- Where can I find the real world dynamic range measurements on the 563A? -nt - Axon 12:05:15 09/13/07 (0)
  .
- So you haven't even read it... - tlyyra 04:44:59 09/12/07 (8)
  ...but feel encouraged to "comment" anyway? Based on what, exactly?
  TL
  - RE: So you haven't even read it... - John Atkinson 12:04:29 09/12/07 (7)
    > ...feel encouraged to "comment" anyway?
    
    I think you are misreading what I wrote. I made no comment at all on
    the Meyer/Moran tests or conclusions. I merely pointed out: 1) that this
    is not the first series of blind tests E. Brad Meyer has been involved
    in where a null result appeared to be the desired outcome; and 2) that
    the source player used, if it was indeed the Pioneer as noted by other
    posters, has a measured dynamic range no better than 16-bit CD, so could
    hardly be expected to preserve the hi-rez aspects of the new media.
    
    As I said, my copy of the new JAES issue has not yet arrived. When it
    does, I will certainly comment on it if necessary. If that's okay by you?
    
    John Atkinson
    Editor, Stereophile
    - RE: So you haven't even read it... - tlyyra 12:58:55 09/12/07 (6)
      Well, all sophistry apart, what you did is basically prejudice its value before even familiarizing yourself with it.
      I'm also curious where the evidence is that "a null result appeared to be the desired outcome" in this research, since, like you, I haven't read the paper, either.
      And yes, thanks so much for asking; we all appreciate reasoned, well-informed, and fair commentary where we can find such.
      TL
      
      Edits: 09/15/07
      - Speaking of prejudicing its value... - E-Stat 11:20:35 09/13/07 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: So you haven't even read it... posted by tlyyra on September 12, 2007 at 12:58:55
        
        Why would you choose a dynamically crippled player for such a test if you truly sought a fair and objective answer to the question?
        
        rw
        
        RE: Speaking of prejudicing its value... - theaudiohobby 00:40:50 09/14/07 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Speaking of prejudicing its value... posted by E-Stat on September 13, 2007 at 11:20:35
        
        There is absolutely zilch evidence that they chose a dynamically crippled player, The reference to a Pioneer 563A refers to a open day blindtest that BAS conducted way back in October 2004.
        Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
        
        Edits: 09/14/07
        
        Perhaps you're right - E-Stat 06:39:36 09/14/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Speaking of prejudicing its value... posted by theaudiohobby on September 14, 2007 at 00:40:50
        
        Unlike any serious "peer reviewed" test worthy of consideration, the systems evaluated were not stated at all. For all we know, they used an iPod.
        
        rw
        
        Uh... because he didn't know any better?... nt - clarkjohnsen 12:08:54 09/13/07 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Speaking of prejudicing its value... posted by E-Stat on September 13, 2007 at 11:20:35
        
        a
        
        So... - E-Stat 12:38:46 09/13/07 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Uh... because he didn't know any better?... nt posted by clarkjohnsen on September 13, 2007 at 12:08:54
        
        that leaves two possibilities: he is either incompetent or willfully deceptive. Take your pick.
        
        rw
        
        given the history - Analog Scott 19:08:55 09/13/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: So... posted by E-Stat on September 13, 2007 at 12:38:46
        
        i lean towards 2

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