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In Reply to: RE: QSC HPR15F.....Long posted by b.l.zeebub on May 28, 2007 at 04:35:49
I have heard Genelecs, this is better! I have wanted to hear PMC as I am a T-line fan from way back, but no units are close to me to audition, and are, of course, vastly more expensive.
This is not the first time I have been suprised by pro gear. The QSC amp I had on the panels blew the transistors off the high-end amps I have here. Smoother, more coherent and never, ever sound strained.
I have measured the in-room response of these active speakers and, above the bass room modes, it is ruler flat. The flatest, smoothest response in-room that I have ever measured here in fact.
I too am shocked that these beat out my planars. Sure there are a few recordings where the bass harmonics and soundstage height are a bit better on the panels, but the PA speakers win everywhere else.
I have heard of the EMT, but not gotten to play with one. Sounds like an awesome table.
My Pass Labs phono stage replaced my Bryston broadcast unit. The Bryston was nice but the Pass is exceptional on vinyl. I replaced my Sota turn table with the Technics 1200MK whatever. It was the first time I have ever heard the bottom-end of a harp reproduced correctly on a phono stage. And the Technics/Aurum/Pass combo really does the toe-tapping thing well. Most audiophile tables I hear are all harmonically oh-so-proper but seem to lack boogie factor!
Give Me Ambiguity or Give Me Something Else!
Follow Ups:
Glad your happy with your speakers, just a bit surprised. Could be because planar fans I met tend to be a bit rabid. I actually like planars for anything but bass. What I don't like is a lot of the owners.
Its what I call the BMW 3series syndrome: Nice cars, just don't wanna be associated with their owners!
I really haven't got a problem with Pass Labs products, one of the few hifi companies I've got any time for! Meanwhile heres (hopefully) a picture of the EMT I'm on about. If they are too big and you'd like to improve on your Technics 1200 get hold of a Technics SP10.
The one thing I don't get is the toe-tapping reference: In my experience toe-tapping is a result of a good tune, never ever the result of good reproduction! A good song will make your toes tap even if it comes out of the shoddiest mono transistor radio.
Laughing pretty hard at your comment on panel owners! It is so darned TRUE! Lets face it, this hobby does attract the obsessive compulsive types. Oh wait, I just described the entire male sex. Nevermind.
Actually panels can be amazingly accurate on the harmonic and timing structure on bass. The trick is to do a mirror-image eq of the panel bass resonance getting the q to inversly match that of the panel. THEN a subwoofer can tie in seemlessly and give great performance. People always blame the sub for being "slow"... unless the sub is a pig it is usually the panel at fault.
That EMT is one mighty looking table!
Yeah, the SP10 was one great table. There is plenty I can do to this table yet; such as outboard regulated power supply and all that. I just don't hear a need for it. Even my friends that own the Uber tables can't fault the thing...which annoys the hell out of them! It didn't hurt that I got a cart that just loves that tone arm. Synergy is all in physical systems I guess.
I hear what you are saying on the music/toe-tapping thing. But, when I go into a high-end shop or show there is all sorts of mental activity for me. I am listening for all the "audiophile" things and often get all wound up in my head. But I can "check in" to see what my body thinks of it all. Case in point, I can listen to a VPI table at my friends shop and be impressed with all the audiophile attributes of the table; seemingly "black" backgrounds between the notes, great imaging and soundstaging and so on. What I DON'T get is any desire to move or dance to the music. The pleasure is all in the head, not in the body. The comment from my other TT owning friends is the same; their tables do the "black" thing a bit better but they notice that mine just boogies more.
It is that engineer thing I guess; I compartmentalize to a greater degree than most normal folk. Or, maybe, I have just been in the hobby too darned long and am well past insane.
Give Me Ambiguity or Give Me Something Else!
I don't think obsessive compulsive behaviour is necessarily a problem if channeled correctly. In audio and other engineering type subjects it never hurt if you measure or calculate things six times. And if you do it because you have to so much the better! At least obsessive compulsives don't get bored with the tedium of it.
The real problems in our field in my opinion is the the amount of one-trick-ponies, you know the people so hell bent on solving one problem that they forget to take care of the basics and create a multitude of other problems along the way.
Of course the worst are obsessive-compulsive one-trick-ponies! (Not to mention pure BS merchants.)
What I found with excessive "blackness" between notes (this is especially true of digital where it is easy to insert complete silence) is that it is quite annoying.
That is to say when I really listen I do so with my eyes closed as this helps to create the illusion of an acoustical space no end. Now if there are gaps in the music I need a little bit of noise to keep up this illusion. In the absence of noise, even for less then a second, this illusion collapses and when the music starts again my brain has to re-build the space from the acoustical cues.
I find this really quite tiring after awhile.
I stopped going to my local high-end shop when they tried to charge me £200 for a short xlr to phono lead. Went to my local pro shop and bought one with Neutriks either end for £6. Just as well as within 3 months my entire system was all balanced and I don't need it anymore.
AS I said I like some aspects of panels a lot and if I would listen exclusively to classical guitar I'd be first in line at the Quad dealer. Alas I tend to listen to dub, old funk, african music, blues and lately some C&W (the weird/odd variety) so I'll stick to my Tannoy LRMs. I found that music which has been recorded 'as live' is much more likely to get me tapping/dancing then stuff which has been tracked which is reflected in my choice of music for serious listening. I also delight in discovering little mistakes the original sound engineer made...
I have heard cdp/dacs that do that muting thing. One nice thing about the Benchmark is that is doesn't mute on the silent stuff. It's signal to noise ratio is real. Maybe thats why it seems natural to me?
On the subject of phono leads, one of my favorite phono cables, amongst all the expensive cables that I have, is the radio-shack digital cable. When I slip it in on blind tests (I put a beauty jacket on them so they look like expensive phono cables) they usually win on sound tests.
Give Me Ambiguity or Give Me Something Else!
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