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Perhaps this is easier...........

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Who makes an accurate sounding 10" driver + an accurate sounding tweeter? I believe 10" is better for voice up to 3kHz & I wish to build a line array with four 10" per cab + tweeter in center.

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Re: Perhaps this is easier........... - Inmate51 09:24:20 02/13/06 (0)
The main differences between nightclub performances and home listening is that, in the nightclub, you have THREE sources for each original source: 1. The actual live instrument or voice, 2. The stage monitoring of them, and 3. The reinforcement of them. And, of course, you also have to deal with audience noise.
With regard to number 3 (sound reinforcement), the goal is simply to provide high quality sound at a higher SPL in order to cover a larger space.
As a result, a well-designed sound reinforcement system in a nightclub isn't significantly different than a home listening system. Rather, there is just the added factor of integrating the stage sound with the reinforced sound. Beyond that, it's still a sound system in a room.
Consequently, you still need to consider driver/system directivity and the characteristics of the room.
Re: Perhaps this is easier........... - servojohn 09:43:32 02/06/06 (5)
First, that is not a line array, that is a copy of a vintage JBL Caberet speaker cabinet, except for the tweeter being moved.
High end pro sound is this:
www.danleysoundlabs.com
Also, his older designs at Servodrive.com are quite good.
If you want vocal clarity in a home brew design, I would at the very least recommend a three way design, using a midrange section operating from about 250-300hz, up to 2500hz. I would also horn load the mid and high freq. sections.
If you're fixed on the the home hi-fi angle, try some variations on Bruce Edgar's horn designs or others in the "High Efficiency" forum here. Earl Geddes provides great insights into design as well as Tom Danley.
You need to consider other things when doing live sound, directivety being one item-keeping the FOH sound output away from the stage and monitor system. Horns have very low distortion products when properly designed(Paul Klipsch was sooo right on many things).
Remember too, passive crossover components need to be designed with greater regards to power handling, and can get expensive. You may want to consider an actively crossed over system.
What kinds of mics are you using? This makes a huge difference as well. Placement and position onstage of mics, performers, and insturment amps also makes a big difference.

John
- Shure 57 series.......nt - Jimmy 11:51:39 02/06/06 (4)
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  - If he's singing into a 57,... - Top Jimmy 01:34:58 02/07/06 (3)
    then creating a reinforcement system solely for vocals will be a lot like polishing a turd. Buy a better vocal mic. If you're seriously into quality, then don't spend less than $250. Buy a vocal processor. There are a few OK ones out there that combine pre, eq, and comp/limiting. Don't be afraid of the compressor, roll-off below 125, put a bump up at 250, 2.5K-5K, and 10K-20K. Most importantly, pay for the kid to get singing lessons. If he wants to sound good and be good, he has to be confidant enough to sing on-key whether he can hear himself or not. The best singer that I regularly work with never stands in front of the monitors. He's so confidant in his own voice that he can go anywhere on-stage or in the audience and he never sings off-key.
    The biggest thing that really works for improving the sound for the audience is reducing the stage volume. Turning down the guitar amps and being conservative with the monitors can go a long way. Using an amp modeler instead of an amp is even better, or isolating the amp in an iso-box and micing it works good too.
    While I applaud you for your attempts to address the issues that you are seeing, don't let your point-of-view cloud your objectivism. You're not in a studio or a quiet listening room. Using a custom-built tube mixer and custom built and aligned cabinets for sound reinforcement really won't make any differences worth mentioning over a Mackie mixer and powered cabinets. It's all in the hands of the guy tweaking the knobs.
    - Re: If he's singing into a 57,... - servojohn 19:58:11 02/07/06 (0)
      I wouldn't poo-poo a 57, I'd use it before a 58, even on vocals in most cases. That said, there are definitely better vocal mics out there, and they will make a big difference.
      Move over to the Shure Beta 87, either A or C versions.
      Also look at the Audix OM5,OM6, or OM7
      Those five are what I consider to be some of the best live sound vocal mics for the intended use. Much better sound quality than the 57/58.
      Best regards,
      John
    - Re: If he's singing into a 57,... - Jimmy 10:35:28 02/07/06 (1)
      Nice reply. Recommend a certain mic? I have some old RCA ribbon mics from my ham radio days? Any good?
      - Ribbons are typically too fragile for stage use - Top Jimmy 14:14:33 02/09/06 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: If he's singing into a 57,... posted by Jimmy on February 7, 2006 at 10:35:28:
        
        And their polar patterns make them equally sensitive to sounds from the rear as they are to the front. This is the biggest negative for reinforcement use. But you seem to be a pretty unconventional guy. The mic would have to be positioned such that the null on the side is where the monitoring source is and it would likely require a windscreen. Another big negative for a ribbon is the amount of gain needed for it. On the typical SR desk, you'd be able to hear the noise floor with that much gain. Other than that, I'm sure the vocals would be nice and smooth, but would require a touch of EQ to enhance the body, presence and clarity of the voices. If the mic never moves, this might make for an interesting experiment.
        For stage vocal use, I would keep my selection to available handheld vocal mics, even if they sit in a stand the whole time. First of all, their size and shape make them more unobtrusive than other types of mics. I'd choose a 58 over a 57. Why? Less breath noise and popping. 58s are a great rock-n-roll mic. The can take a licking and they keep on ticking. Places where I'm afraid to send my 58s, I'll put up the Audix OM-5s. But if I've got a big mix and I want my vocals to have that extra quality to help them stand out better, It's either the Beta 87C or an AKG C535EB. These are both cardioid condenser mics with pretty smooth off-access response. The handheld that I aspire to is the Neumann KMS105. I just don't have $650 to drop on one right now.
        Note: While EV makes some great products, stay away from their handheld mics. You only use an EV when someone specifically wants that sound.

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