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In Reply to: RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO posted by cics on May 05, 2008 at 13:31:58
Hello, everybody. This is what the mermaid finally told me: keep my memory tight, keep my timings tight, starve me, be strict with me and put this line in your boot.ini:
/nopae /noexecute=alwaysoff /fastdetect /UsePMTimer /timeres=9766 /nodebug /pcilock /onecpu /MAXMEM=256 (if you use /noguiboot, place it at the end of the line). If You use 512 mb of memory, be more carefull with maxmem. The smallest achievable setting is 215-216 mb, provided that you have done all 22 of my tweaks and your memory timings in bios are set to the extreme shortest. Give some time to burn-in.
Serge.
N.B. To Enjoy the mermaid to the fullest, don't forget to ENABLE Precision Event Timer in BIOS!!!
Edits: 12/03/11Follow Ups:
Now that I have my registry tweaking process working ok (thanks again Rick) I have settled on maxmem back at 256 and hpet enabled.
Guys,Thanks for the new tweak !
However, after editing the boot.ini, I got serious pop and click sound under cplay when upscan to 192khz, 96khz also the same (a bit better)
I downclock my CPU to 1.2GHz from 3GHz, now i try to give it more power, finally at 2Ghz, upscan to 192khz play without problem.
So this boot.ini tweak will let CPU work harder?
Thanks
Edits: 12/07/11
Hi Serge,
Van Morrison's 'Saint Dominic's Preview' always sound a bit thin and 2 dimensional. With your latest boot.ini tweak, it is thin no more, but now very liquid and 3 dimensional for the first time. Even a bit tube-like, in the best sense of the term.
A great tweak, thanks for a wonderful find.
KC
Serge after reading about riboges tests I still wonder what does maxmem=256 mean when you have a 256 ram? Is there any merit in trying something lower than 256 in my case? Also if maxmem allocates the most memory for cplay should not I get more time between swaps versus baseline (no maxmem setting in boot.ini). Baseline would give me 2 minutes 14 seconds between swaps now I get the same with maxmem=256. Puzzling.
Edits: 12/06/11
Theo, The absolute minimum is 214 mb With less cplay starts, will try to load the file but will finally say it has only so and so (e.g. 160), but needs so and so (it's 163mb, IIRC). By substracting and rounding to the highier value you will reach your absolute minimum. If you set up your bios with cmp002 settings it will ask for 215-216, and IF You are, like Rick, an absolute tweaker, then set your memory timings for extreme cmp003 settings but give 217mb in boot.ini. Read my tweaks 21 with care once again. Try, but do it slowly.
Serge.
P.S. It doesn't matter how much memory you have in your stick, it is how much of your stick you show to the mermaid, if you see what I mean.
One thing you should remember is that I use the G31-E2sL mobo which does not have many of the settings you reference in Tweak 21. So although I can set timings very low for memory and I can adjust cpu speed and voltage low thats about it.
Other settings are less important. The trick is in extremely short memory timings.
Serge.
LOL!! I'm afraid if I show any stick to the mermaid...I'll get arrested.
I'll try 217.
timing adjustments? Can some approximation of this work, like using Maxmen=512 or something a bit higher as an improvement over dual core and 3GB of ram? You probably can't say with any strong basis but does this seem worth trying or obviously unlikely to work?
but I am not certain how I tell if it is really being implemented in my system with none of the advanced bios adjustments. Is this boot.ini setting necessarily effective in any installation with whatever bios?
enough. It tells window to see only amount specified. There is another interesting switch. It does to windows memory almost the same, but not absolutely. It should be even better, but I haven't tried it yet. /burnmemory=mb You have to calculate how much memory to HIDE from windows, Just the opposite of the /maxmem. Try, if you wish and please report. Feedback, even negativeб is precious to us all. Example, if you have 512 mb stick put /burnmemory=256, if 1gb, put /burnmemory=755
Serge.
The minimal amount of memory is 215-216-217 mb. This row is such, because I hope, that You have tried my bios/memory settings from tweaks part 21corrected. The shorter are the memory timings, the more memory (217) you will need. The sound is EXTREMELY good with Extreme settings. Try, be careful and patient. (give real 24 hours burn-in time.)
Also try to put ALL THE BOOT.INI LINE, including /nopae and /onecpu
The difference is substantional. I,ve been playing my music with this bios line for a month.
Edits: 12/05/11 12/05/11
The BURNMEMORY switch works fine. The effect is not obviously different from maxmem but my system is sounding so big and full and balanced at this stage that it is hard to pick up further improvement...maybe with time. I do notice that my cpu usage has gone up from a typical 1-3% to more like 11-13%. As I said I am using a Lenovo laptop which does not provide for the bios/memory adjustments of your step 21 but I am using the full boot.ini line with nopae and onecpu.
I am glad you are so much better with computers than with arithmetic. :) 1000-256 does not come to 755.
You say cpu is working harder. Is it with /maxmemory or /burnmemory?
I reverted to maxmem as suggested. This time the cpu ran in the teens rather than low single digits I can't explain the change. Now maxmem runs just a few percent less cpu usage than burnmemory, and perhaps the latter sounds a bit better since now with our new math I am burning more memory to get a truer 256 remainder (3072-2716).
Please, if you have time and leasure, keep the record of these settings reverting from one to another and try to record the cpu usage. I wonder if both commands allow to bite off a different part of the physical memory every time, and it is important to catch the least possible, if it is possible at all.
Serge
(Certainly, if You have time to do it)
ALSO, Did You try yhe full line with /nopae and/onecpu settings?
What do you think of the sonic change?
Edits: 12/05/11 12/05/11
I have gone back and forth between maxmem and burnmemory three more times. I complicated it a bit by reducing the resulting memory used progressively. Still I never reproduced the very low cpu usage I saw at first. It must have been an anomaly or mistake of some kind. In all cases usage varied mostly in the range of 15-20% with spikes into the 20's. I have now gotten down to using 226MB with maxmem. It is hard to say there was any significant improvement in sq beyond the initial benefit of reducing to maxmem=256. If any it is refinement of ultra-refinement. I repeat that I have been using the full boot.ini line with /nopae and /onecpu all along with this.
It is puzzling to me given the overall goal of reducing cpu stress that this memory limitation improves things though increasing cpu usage--though it is now usage of one core instead of two. Contradicts our premise, doesn't it?
And it is something to think about.
Serge.
It is working harder with burnmemory by a factor of 5: 1-3% for maxmem vs up to 15%. These memory limitations should increase it some, yes? That is one reason I was questioning whether maxmem was really having an effect. Clearly burnmemory is re cpu work.
Decisively, /maxmemory should be used. And, btw. I am already hearing the roar of distant laughter at our common math. 1 Gb is 1024 mb (512+512)
Serge.
Obviously, we both have our minds on a higher plane...and what's a few dozen MBs one way or the other anyway.:) I am heading back to maxmem on the double.
with my own mind. I have prepared everything to rebuild my cmp again and can't make myself begin. As for the math, yeah, it is funny, because another thing was on my mind absolutely. Certainly, 1000 - 256 makes 778 and not 744 anyway.
Serge.
Last time I did not like maxmem=256 but putting the other stuff in (nopae/onecpu) makes it all work very nicely. Thanks for insisting I try the whole line as you wrote it in your post. Nice big sq pop! Not only is timbre right but dynamics and air are also better. Everything sounds very balanced.
Hi Serge
I'm very curious to know what you hear when switching HPET ON/OFF in your BIOS (...no other changes of course, just the HPET).
This question comes from the research I did earlier this year on using the HPET within a Windows XP context. The results/conclusions were posted in the cMP forum, see -> http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/8/88573.html
In essence, XP-SP2 (and beyond) can recognize the presence of HPET on a modern mobo, but XP has no driver for it, and therefore CANNOT benefit from it's use. Not directly anyway.
However, if you are hearing a change in SQ by toggling this component in BIOS (and I certainly trust your reporting on the effect of subtle changes), some other mechanism must be responsible.
Here's a wild guess: perhaps it's related to EMI/RFI pollution on that particular mobo ? Maybe other mobos don't react the same way. This is all speculation on my part, but I just had to make up some kind of shaky answer.
Looking forward to your reply.
Cheers,
Grant
That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!
In fact the hpet device is in your system and is enabled without drivers like a vga compatible video controller, see the picture. The sound seemed colder? but more precise. (or I talked myself to believe). I want yet to try bigger values. and see. After all it was about a month ago. But I Kept this setting, so there was a change for the better. Grant, try the whole string I posted, in your bios and say if you like it or not. Only, the whole string.
Serge.
Give it a 1-1,5 hours time to settle.
Edits: 12/03/11
The pic is from untweaked russian xp on my work machine it is High precision event timer. If you rightclick it you read the drivers are not installed (Code 28) and below in device usage - Use this device (enable) and in resources you will see the irq etc.
Hi SergeI too get the equivalent Device Manager info for the HPET device... BUT, XP is not able to use it ! The fundamental code of XP was cast in stone long before HPET devices were implemented on motherboards.
If you read the (rather long) post indicated above (from the cMP thread), you will see the quote supporting this notion, and a link to where I found the information.
Regarding BOOT.INI parameters, my file contains all switches shown above except "/onecpu" and "/MAXMEM=256"... it's been that way as far back as spring of this year. I use a 512 mb stick of Hyper-X RAM, and run cMP^2 on the G31M mobo (...ancient, but still effective).
When you get the chance to test HPET In/Out, please lets us know your findings.
Cheers,
Grant
That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!
Edits: 12/04/11 12/11/11
Did you use the WHOLE line, or only /maxmem? Try the WHOLE line.
Serge.
I'm a contrarian on this one...sounds very similar to the known dll's deletion tweak. Things sound a bit more midrangy almost like a tube stage was added somewhere in the link. Its not unpleasant but disappointing for me. Maybe if you use nopae which sounds very uber solid state to me(tight bass, great dynamics but a bit edgy) it evens things out. I may leave it but I may have add nopae back in.
What if you have 256 mb ram? I'm going to try anyway ... just thought I would ask. If it works does that mean longer times between swaps and fewer (swaps) per track in cplay? Or not?
What sense in used memory limit?
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/
My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H, Intel Core i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Liv
To shorten "walks" between processor and memory and decrease the number of pages.
Serge.
Amazed by what this did. Outstanding tweak.
Fabulous work serge.... Thanks a lot..!!!
Junaid
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