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In Reply to: RE: I have used both the LYNX and JULI@ cards intensively as digital interface posted by Mihaylov on October 18, 2011 at 15:06:43
Hi Serge,Thankx for your suggestion on how too further improve the sound quality from the digital part of the Juli@.
But I do not exactly understand what you mean and what next step you are suggesting.
I already did unsolder the U1 regulator.
So right now my Juli@ digital part looks like this.
Van on filtering, de-coupling, demping, ect I power it through a newly constructed voltage regulator based on a higher quality LT IC voltage regulator
(Too further improve DC quality I also extra filter the input too and output from the regulator bord. These filters are not shown on this picture)
Van on filtering, de-coupling, demping, ect My first question is:
- If I cut the 8 PCI traces on my Juli@ digital part as shown on the above picture, will my Juli@ digital part still function?
(it than will only receive 3,3 Volt DC from the external regulator)Or (second question)
- does my Julia digital part as shown in above picture (with 3,3 voltage from external power source) still need the extra 5 Volt DC when those 8 PCI traces are cut?
So: 5 Volt DC (from external power source) + 3,3 Volt DC (from external power source)?Mark
fully optimized cMP2 PC -> ESI Juli@ -> Van den Hul Optocoupler MkII-> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
Edits: 10/19/11Follow Ups:
Hi Mark!
I am not sure that Juli receives a power supply from the motherboard only through regulator U1. Probably that some elements on board Juli receive a power supply in the bus wire +5V from the motherboard directly or through other regulators (not U1). Therefore it is necessary to supply them from the external power supply cutting 8 traces on a board Juli.
Most easier to cut these 8 traces and will check up to work Juli. If Juli will not work it will be necessary to connect additional external power supply +5В instead of the power supply from the motherboard.
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/
My cMP2: Windows XP SP2, Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H, Intel Core i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live, iPad
Mark and Serge,
First of all, I can answer the question about whether the Juli@ digital section needs 5v to operate. While I haven't tested it, I determined that 3 of the devices, the HC125AG CMOS Buffer/Line Driver (that appears to enable the switching of the SPDIF input and output signals), the PLT133/T10 TOSLINK output, and the AV73-01L are powered by the 5v. Without the 5v from either the motherboard or supplied by a separate supply, you definitely won't get a SPDIF output from either the RCA or TOSLINK. Actually, you probably won't get any function at all. Even though I cannot find any info on the AV73-01L chip, it sits between the Envy VT1721 (PCI interface) & the XILINX (local controller) and as such, likely plays a very key role in the Juli@'s operation.
See my long, rambling post here for more info: http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=96880
Second, I want to thank you for your impressions on the sonic benefits of various modifications to the Juli@. While I've done a bit with the card too, almost all of my use has been with I2S-connected DACs and not using the SPDIF connection.
Mark, I especially was interested your comments on the benefits of using the Van den Hul Opto-Coupler TOSLINK. I do expect benefits with properly-implemented galvanic isolation from the Juli@ card (and I expect Van den Hul to properly implement it!). But I need to do more investigation on how to best implement it for the I2S connection.
Two asides... one, I have a bunch of caps coming to experiment with additional local bypassing/filtering on the power supply leads to the 'key' devices on the Juli@, the Envy VT1721 PCI interface & the XILINX local controller. Given they have to be very noisy chips, I expect there to be significant performance improvement potential here. Its a pity that one can't easily provide separate power to these chips, but the power runs are in one of the internal layers of the multi-layer circuit board of the Juli@.
Still, I hope this will provide a good improvement above just providing seperate power for the 5v & 3.3v on the Juli@ digital. I'll publish my results in the subthread I listed above.
Then, recently I saw a number of interesting discussions on DIYAudio dealing with wringing the best performance out of the ESS DACs. Many of the ideas and techniques discussed will have application on other DACs. These threads included:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/117238-ess-sabre-reference-dac-8-channel-4.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/196474-ess9018-try-new-try-more.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/147817-ackodac-based-es9018-8.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/190033-upgrading-modding-new-oppos-bdp-93-bdp-95-a-2.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/183374-exau2i-multi-channel-asynchronous-usb-i2s-interface-17.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/188902-xmos-based-asynchronous-usb-i2s-interface.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/196049-dual-i-v-stage-implementation-buffalo-ii-iii.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/196552-buffalo-iii-dac-tube-output-stage.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/twisted-pear/164294-buffalo-ii-transformers-5.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/feastrex/197223-premium-finemet-transformers.html
Note that some of these threads are pretty long... the most relevent info is in the last several pages of posts. Also great to see Jonathan Carr, the designer of the Lyra Connoisseur electronics participating in these threads.
Again, to both of you, thanks for the very good info!
Greg in Mississippi
P.S. Serge, an extra thanks to you for your previous publishing of the details of upgrading the clocks on a Juli@. I have a dual clock coming from http://www.fidelityaudio.co.uk/clocks.html and hope to get a good upgrade with it.
Everything matters!
Hi Greg,
Thank you very much for joining this thread and providing the answer too my question !
Knowing the answer now, I’m still wondering if it will be worth the trouble of cutting the 8 fingers on the Juli@ that take 5 volt from the PCI slot. How much extra sound quality improvement will there be if I start providing 5 Volt high quality DC power too the Juli@ digital part from an external source?
Right now my Juli@ digital part gets:
- 5 Volt ‘dirty’ DC power from the PCI socket
- 3,3 Volt DC clean power from external source
Providing clean 3,3 Volt DC from an external source gave a very big rise in sound quality !
But will there be again such a big improvement in sound quality when I also switch too 5 volt clean power?
I would be very curious too know if there are any inmates who have compared the following two power configurations on their Juli@ digital part:
* Power configuration 1:
- 5 Volt ‘dirty’ DC power from the PCI socket
- 3,3 Volt high quality DC power from an external source
* Power configuration 2:
- 5 Volt high quality DC power from an external source (with the 8 pci fingers cut)
- 3,3 Volt high quality DC power from an external source
Until now I haven’t red any postings from inmates who did some experiments on this.
Probably most inmates changed over both voltages (5 V and 3,3 V) at once too an external source.
So the contribution of clean power too sound quality from each voltage separately, is still unknown.
I think I will wait for a while and see if there will be any response from inmates who might have done this experiment.
Mark
fully optimized cMP2 PC -> ESI Juli@ -> Van den Hul Optocoupler MkII-> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
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