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In Reply to: RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO posted by cics on May 05, 2008 at 12:31:58
Hi serge. I made deletions as per what u suggested in Part 4 but was somehow not as pleased as I thought I would be. It dint sound balanced. Especially in the bass & mids. Waited for it to burn in for almost 48 hours now. But still not happy. So I went ahead & tried something wild. Made a list of files which I thought could effect the performance in addition to what we already have deleted as per Ur suggestions. So I deleted a few files & was stunned at what happened. It's like the whole music spectrum has cleaned up. Sounds like as if the noise-floor came down a couple notches. Am able to listen at a much more louder volume than I mostly do. Sounds very controlled as well. These are the files I have deleted. A few are from the System folder as well. But most are from System32.
fp40.ext
fxsocm.dll
iis.dll
imsinsnt.dll
msgrocm.dll
msmqocm.dll
netoc.dll
ocmsn.dll
tabletoc.dll
zoneoc.dll
Avicap.dll
Avifile.dll
MCIAVI
MCIWAVE
MSVIDEO.dll
TAPI.dll
winscard.dll
wmp.dll
wmp.ocx
wmpasf.dll
wmpcd.dll
wmpcore.dll
wmpdxm.dll
wmploc.dll
wmpshell.dll
wmpui.dll
wmspdmod.dll
wowfax.dll
wowfaxui.dll
Follow Ups:
I see a file NTOC.dll, but not netoc.dll. Perhaps I missed it. Is it possible this is a typo?
No it's not a typo. The file is netoc.dll
The file u specified is a non-system file. Must be belonging to some software u have installed on Ur system
Edits: 09/09/11
I have been noticing this since about a week. The Bottom end, & for that matter the whole Range does not sound FULL without the wdmaud.drv file in it's respective folder. I agree that Juli@ does work without the file as well, but the bottom line is that the end-result sounds incomplete without it. Without the wdmaud.drv file, I feel that, if not full, atleast half an octave sounds missing in the lower registers ( somewhere between the bass/midbass/lower-mids section). The male vocals sound leaner & the impact in Bass guitars lacks the Bite which kinda makes the sound, as we could say "light-weighted". Whether Juli@ needs the file to work or not, it sure is needed to make the presentation Complete.
Last night when I was having my listening session, I did one more thing. Serge had suggested that we delete the file named "SOUND" in his 1st list. I put it back in it's respective folder, & heard a wake-up call again. When we make deletions, we need to be absolutely focussed & sure as to how it sounded before & what it's sounding after the deletion. A CHANGE need not always be an improvement (No Offence to Serge). That's what has happened by removing those two files. I suggest u all try it as well & post a feedback.
I cannot comment on the improvements of users who use other soundcards apart from Juli@. It's a sure possibility that they too might equally benefit by putting back the wdmaud.drv & SOUND files in their original folders. But as far as Juli@ is concerned, it's a MUST !!!
Edits: 09/08/11
No, I am not a Juli@ user. I use ASIO4ALL and the Devilsound dac through an USB isolator with an external battery power supply.And as I was listening to Tweak #4.5 (that's what I call Jolida's first list) I thought to myself, why don't I try Jolida's other suggestion posted a week ago, putting wdmaud.drv back. After all no harm could possibly be done because I can always remove it if I don't like it.
To put a story short, putting wdmaud.drv back does make a big difference. The sound is now no longer thin; not only is it fuller and more natural, the soundstage is now more extended to the back, so that it is now square instead of a thin rectangle.
Then Jolida make another suggestion, put SOUND back. After putting back the sound.drv (lower case in my system) back to System32 and dllcache. I immediately played Van Morrison's 'His Band & The Street Choir'. I always thought that record is the worst recorded of his 3 classics which include "Astral Weeks', and 'Moondance'. This applies to both the LPs (Japanese pressing) and the wave files ripped from Japanese remastered CD. But by putting back the sound.drv file, the sound of that record is no longer a bit recess, but is as immediate as the sound on 'Moondance', one of the most immediate recordings ever! Imagine my surprise! Everything is now in my room!
A revelation indeed. Everyone MUST give this a try.
P.S. I understand that Jolida had created a second list. I think I will sit this one out, at least for a couple of days. The sound coming out of the steppe tweaks 1-4 + Jolida's 4.5 + 2 DRV files back has created such fantastic sound I think I will just happily enjoy that for the moment.
Edits: 09/09/11
Hi kclo,
I understand your situation completely. It has happened to me many a times in this hobby, that when ur system plays flaw-less after trying some tweaks or upgrades, one does not want to mingle with the Already perfect Equation that has been created :-) & wants to enjoy by re-discovering his precious recordings which now sound "ENJOYABLE"...
Sound goes back into system32 drivers subfolder, correct? I tried but did not reboot and I did not like it. Did you reboot after replacing Sound?
The file that I deleted earlier was the "SOUND" in capital letters. It was in the Recycle Bin which I just restored. I think it does go to the drivers folder if I'm not wrong. Yes a reboot is a must. Reboot in cMP mode. Restore the wdmaud.drv file as well...
Rebooted and its better but still not sure I prefer. There is more (apparent) transparency with Sound deleted and a deeper soundstage but with Sound back in there is a more traditional sound...a certain brightness that disappears (which is appealing) and soundstage moves more up front (which ims is not appealing). I'll listen a few days and see/hear which I prefer. There is a theoretical aspect of this that bothers me. I get that deleting stuff not needed reduces pc overhead. Putting stuff back in to eq the system strikes me as wrong. I have a digital crossover that allows me to eq stuff so I prefer to do it that way. However with Sound deleted I did try to eq with my crossover and it was not as effective as 'putting Sound back in'. But I am pragmatic about this so I'll live with this a few days and make a final judgment then.
Thanks again for all the suggestions. BTW I take it that you prefer Sound back in (I have all juli@ drivers still in Sys32) but what drove you to try this? Was it a dissatisfaction and did you try to put other drivers back in as well?
A week ago, I had made deletions based on a screenshot by Mihaylov. I deleted all the files listed on it which CHANGED the sound though, but I wasn't sure if I liked all of it. Felt as if some in-between stuff was missing. Though it became more Open & light, I felt that passages having drum-strikes & lower frequencies lacked Attack. Before making those deletions, I had noted that the wdmaud.drv was on the list of the drivers which Juli@ was using (in the Control Panel > Sounds > Juli@ > Properties > Driver. So curiously wanted to cross-check if it's deletion was worth it. And to my surprise, it brought back that missing section which I felt had to be restored. I immediately notified Mihaylov about it & he said he would look into it.
Last evening, I was guiding a cousin of mine who lives close-by with the procedure of deleting the files step by step. He first deleted the 16 files of Serge's first list ( which included SOUND) & upon completion we noted that though it became better in the high frequencies, something was giving a feeling of Hollowness in the lower mid-band. Ran it continuosly expecting things to settle, but no luck. Thereafter we started restoring each file at a time, & deleting it again to re-check, we came to a point where restoring the Sound file filled that Hollow section & sounded more correct.
He is using Juli@ as well. I understand that deleting un-necessary files reduces pc overheads that tax the motherboard thereby polluting the supply. But what I am most careful about, is not to use any tweak in the form of a "tone control" or as u say an EQ, which may reveal more airiness but which is tentatively the result of pulling down other frequencies, thus creating a feeling of something New..
I certainly agree that we all have our personal listening tastes, which may appeal to me & not to others. But it showed a positive change to me, so I thought I would encourage other inmates who use Juli@ to also try the same.
Thanks for Ur feedback :-)
Edits: 09/09/11
Fair enough believe me I am not criticizing...just providing the feedback you requested. Make no mistake the files you suggested to delete are perhaps one of the biggest tweaks I have made to CMP...keep up the good work.
Thanks :-) Ur feedback is important to me, as well as to all who are reading this forum. Audio Asylum, by itself is a place where we share our views about each other's findings, so that other inmates can also benefit from them. I truly appreciate the efforts taken by Serge & Mihaylov, who have let us in this direction, of improving the cMP, based on a Software-Level modification. Two thumbs up for them..!!!
Hi all
also this new chapter of "deletion files war" or better "russian roulette" was done.
I agree on transparency, clearly best, others veils are dropped (a lot!) between my loudspeakers and my ears and from this background silence new particulars shows up. I could name this like Silent Music, music born from deep silence? Or better from silence and vacuum, it's a completely new experience for me, very exciting.
I need other hours of listening because I've had a first impression of a leaner sound, more open but with tonal balance slightly on highs. No cold, no harsh only more open so I need more time to find proper new settings, but results are outstanding.
It could needs a software burn-in (another strange phenomenon, but true)?
Impressive!I can't believe that deletion of few files could causes so big change in SQ.
Thanks a lot for your job, jolida
My pleasure :)
By the way Which soundcard are u using ?
I use an Asus Xonar Essence STX with his analog output. I'm waiting for next steppe' steps for make a complete update on all files deleted.
It seems to me that also your "list of deletion" needs a little burn-in time.
It's strange but after few hours sound is clearly better balanced, no more "lean" sensation. It sounds great, really
THX again Jolida
Ryelands points out it takes time to appreciate subtleties. I add that in taking time one accommodates to the 'new' sound so it seems to become more balanced...i.e., more familiar. Or, OTOH, one gets over the thrill of the new and finds it thin or flat after a while, which also has been reported. I believe there is no doubting that these deletions have improved the sound, each phase of deletions, but I am a bit skeptical of the reports of clear changes due to deleting one element or returning one element though, of course, it as possible as any of these changes--all are hard to explain.
Thanks, none the less, to Jolida.
. . . your "list of deletions" needs a little burn-in time
If you mean that it takes even experienced listeners time to appreciate the effect of subtle changes in a configuration, I agree with you.
Simply detecting a change (which experienced listeners can do very quickly) and properly evaluating it are different things. Listeners are inevitably "anchored" to the old base-line.
If OTOH it is implied that the way data are processed changes for the better over time (all else being equal) simply as a result of minor software changes then I cannot agree.
If people find that it takes time fully to appreciate a given change, might I suggest that we avoid the term "burn-in" as it has a reasonably well-understood meaning associated with chemical and other changes in audio components as functions of age and temperature.
Something like "give this a little time" perhaps?
Dave
Really nice to hear that. Thanks for your appreciation...
My favorite time to listen to my system is 5:00 am - 7:00am. This is when my powerline is the least distorted. I just listened and wow these deletions take my system to a level I have not heard before. Can't say enough good things about the effectiveness of your recommendations.
I now hear what you say about mids and mid bass but for me the beauty of these recommendations is in the highs. All that has been said in this thread are indeed what any keen eared audiophile can hear. Do check what files you need for your soundcard and yes please do try these deletions.
It's because the Highs are free from the grunge of the Bass which was dominant on the whole spectrum till this had been done. The deletions have balanced the tonal equation to a very great extent. The experience is more "Out-of-the-box". If the tonality is not balanced, it sounds Analytical. I guess now it's become more "Musical". I'm glad you liked it :)
Yes exactly... I perceived a very strong change as well. Was apparent immediately upon doing it. I made the deletions based upon critical listening after deleting each file. Most important was getting rid of the dll files starting with the 'wmp'. I specifically wanted to delete them, as it did not make a Very strong change by just cutting the Windows Media folder from the Program Files. I suppose those files were still messing up things in the background.
Wlowes :- I think ur soundcard uses the 'wincard.dll' file which i specified. As i am using Juli@, it worked for me, but since u r using different soundcard, it must have had a conflict. I suggest u put it back in the system32 folder IF u have not permanently deleted it. If not let me know & i shall send it to u by email...
Theob :- Yes the edginess has vanished. I too was noticing the vocals to be a little strained especially in the lower-mids. If u have noticed, the mid-bass has also cleaned up, thus cleaning up the Vocal ranges as well.
Riboge :- You got that right !! the Imaging now looks spot-on, because the noise-floor has gone down making the spacing between intruments to EXIST. Prior to this, it was'nt completely deliniated. Now that the background is more Black, we are able to localize the presence of instruments more clearly without straining.
This is very inspiring. I had made many Hardware-level upgrades to my cMP like making Linear supplies & Ferrites & Caps & what not. But im surprised that these Software-Level changes can lead to an equal or if i could say a better improvement than the former. And best of all, its FREE :)
I don't want to raise an unwarrented alarm, but for me this did not work out. I can boot, cplay starts, and appears to play, but no sound. I am using aqvox asio driver. Perhaps something else is wrong. I'll debug tomorrow.
After deleting files, some exe failed to start due to wincard.dll missing.
otherwise system normal, but no sound. running xp home sp3.
My appologies, this was truely a false alarm. It seems a signal wire deep inside my DAC broke as I deleted the files.
I have now got it working again, and have made these deletions and could not be happier with the results. I'll save listening impressions for when I have had more time, but no question the noise floor has dropped away leaving air, and details not before heard.
Thank you again, and sorry to those to whom I have caused hesitation.
Walter
Hey Guys,
We also had problems with a cMP running a RME Soundcard. All deletions worked (uptil Part 3), except : ks.sys & ksproxy.ax.
Just beware.
kind regards
cMP2 Computer: i3-540 Core cPlay039 >FIR filter w/ convolver> Lynx Aurora 8 FireWire /192kHz throughout. 2x AcousticReality Ref. 202 & 2x AcousticReality Ref. 601īs ICEpower. Magnepan MG3.3R beechwood frames & custom stands. Miller chokes
Hi wlowes
has you checked the drivers used by your aquox before starting this "russian roulette", on "sound" of your control panel?
I think this is mandatory for everyone before any alteration of files inside system 32 folder, maybe you've deleted some of these ones.
I'm sorry for you, but these "delection work" is the main upgrade until now,IMHO, but is "PC sensitive" so results can diverge from one to other, formerly for the different soundboards used.
Daniele
Everything does sound YET better.
I think you are on the right track about noise. Not just a noise floor but noise that was there and not perceived until it was gone.
Noise between instruments, notes, etc.
Thanks,
Ok Jolida magnificient! The air around instruments is stupendous. How can it keep getting better. What strategy did you use to find these files? Was it just random or was there some method to the madness because you chose the best ones to delete/move. This might be best of the best based on a cursory listen to. I have a file Bach Concerti for 3 harpsichords by the Cologne Chamber Orchestra which was always on the border of brightnes/edgyness. Now the instruments just hang into space dripping of liquidity!!
Well done!
I deleted your list save the few I didn't find. It seems to bring a further improvement along the lines of the last two lists. Greater clarity and dimensionality with more exact localizations. All ranges sound full and, as you say, clean. I am listening to a marvelous recording of Porgy & Bess, the full musical on EMI CD with Rattle and the London Philharmonic. I can close my eyes and be in orchestra center so for real I wonder where my tickets are.
which is not saying much (I am no one to make such a judgment!) but they seem to be more of the same ilk as Serge's deletions. I gave a cursory look-up with GOOGLE and saw nothing scary about any of the files.
As I mentioned before, three of the files were on Serge's list.
I will try them tonight and give my opinion tomorrow.
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