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In Reply to: RE: Why donīt they all get it ? posted by play-mate on May 02, 2011 at 09:42:05
Hi Play-mate,
I'm new to this forum and I've been kindly answered by Dawnrazor after my first post. Dawnrazor wrote me that you are a 'DRC' specialist and he invited me to contact you on this topic.
As apparently you might already use DRC (FIR filter w/ convolver in your chain)I wonder if I could bother you with some questions?
Cheers,
Golo
Follow Ups:
Hi golo,
also Iīm happy to help where I can.
whatīs the problem ?
L.
cMP2 Computer: i3-540 Core cPlay039 >FIR filter w/ convolver> Lynx Aurora 8 FireWire /192kHz throughout. 2x AcousticReality Ref. 202 & 2x AcousticReality Ref. 601īs ICEpower. Magnepan MG3.3R beechwood frames & custom stands. Miller chokes
Hi play-mate,
Thanks for answering.
My problem is that I haven't found out yet clear answers to my questions regarding cPlay in general and with the use of DRC within it.
1)cPlay:
only work with an ASIO 2 compliant soundcard: does it mean that it won't work with an external usb DAC directly connected to the mobo's usb port ie it needs an ASIO 2 compliant soundcard in between?
b) resampling:
- does cPlay resample either through SRC or Sox or is there a way to 'unable' resampling?
- what 'resampling' means in cPlay: changing the sample rate or changing the sample rate AND the resolution (ie 16-bit> 32-bit)?
c) cPlay offers 2 channel output mapping only: but it's said elsewhere that "6.Supports up to 3 ASIO soundcards with each having up to 100 output channels" !!! As most of DRC softwares allow for digital Xovers I'd like to know if cPlay can output more than 2 channels
d)cPlay with Juli@: in the cPlay Diagnostics window of the guide one can see that the Juli@ soundcard, which is 24-bit capable, has got ASIO Driver starting at 32-bit. What does it mean? Is cPlay 'upbitting' at 32-bit and then has 8 bits truncated when going through Juli@?
2) DRC
Further on in the Guide it is said that "cPlay supports use of a single VST plugin (up to version 2.4.2, 2-in/max 8-out) in 32 bit float precision. ASIO performance is maintained for 2-in/2-out plugins (stereo output). For multi-channel output, best ASIO performance is achieved when latency is 64 samples or less."
a) 32 bit float precision: does it mean that if I want to use DRC my filters are to be done at 32-bit?
b) 2-in/max 8-out: what "8-out" means if cPlay can output 2-channel only?
On a more general matter, when I'm working on a project on Adobe Audition at 32-bit, can I listen to it directly through cPlay OR do I have to save it, exit Adobe Audition and then open the saved file into cPlay?
That will be all for now!
Cheers,
golo
Hi Golo,Point for point answers :
1. (cMP & cPlay = ) cMP2 can run with an USB DAC via MoBo and asio4all, but asio4all and USB is limited in several regards. For multi channel editing FireWire is the better option.
b. the entire idea of cPlay is to upsample !
itīs interpolation technique is an integral part of itīs significant performance.
when input and output samplerate is the same, cPlay leaves the signal untouched.c. when run with a (say) 6 channels ASIO soundcard, cPlay offers output to those 6 channels.
You obviously cannot squeeze more channels through your system than the amount of channels the hardware is designed for.
In the VST section of cPlayīs manual this is described and exemplified with the "allocator" crossover software.d. the question about 24bit versus 32bit is only theoretical computer language, and has no practical sound relevance. even on a 64bit computer and a 32bit capable converter chip ..just scrub it !
2. ASIO is a protocol (a digital handshake or agreement) that is best understood as the player (cPlay) is becoming an integral software within the ASIO device.
VST is always single-client, whereby the VST software then becomes an integral software extention to the player.a. no !
-floating means that for example a 24bit signal is treated as a 32 bit signal and mathematical "adapted" to 32bit precision.b. read the VST section of the manual.
the number of channels is determined by the soundcard.
when I first started with this I used a 6 channel Lynx PCI soundcard and cPlay and its VST software recognizes this immediately.
Nowadays I use an external Lynx 8 channel DAC via Firewire and cPlay recognizes the external converter in the same manner : as an ASIO device.You cannot use cPlay as a mixing tool or in connection with Adobe Audition.
In short you need a professional D/A A/D Converter to operate multiple channels. Go and talk to a Proaudio Store about your requirements. cMP2 is not the right platform for audio editing.
Hope this helps.
cMP2 Computer: i3-540 Core cPlay039 >FIR filter w/ convolver> Lynx Aurora 8 FireWire /192kHz throughout. 2x AcousticReality Ref. 202 & 2x AcousticReality Ref. 601īs ICEpower. Magnepan MG3.3R beechwood frames & custom stands. Miller chokes
Edits: 05/12/11
Thanks a lot play-mate,
You have answered a lot and it helped me to understand better what cMP2 does and doesn't.
I think I will stick with 2-channel (stereo) output for now just to get used to cmp2. One step at a time!
I saw you're using 'FIR filter w/ convolver' yourself. Is it for DRC purpose? If so could you develop: which DRC engine are you using to create your filters, resolution and sample rate of your filters etc?
Hey Golo,
Digital room correction (DRC) is becoming much more interesting as real computers are gaining access into high-end playback.
-the early turnkey attempts got mocked quite a bit....
While such a system cannot turn a bathroom into a brilliant listening environment, it certainly can do a significant tribute for stereo imaging and "polish" some important acoustical issues.
I regard the "acourate" software to be the most versatile and the one with the most tune-able features, so that room and speaker integrate most optimal.
There is no idea in trying to turn a mid-fi speaker into a high-end one.
I wrote about it here :
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/messages/17/171469.html
Kind regards
cMP2 Computer: i3-540 Core cPlay039 >FIR filter w/ convolver> Lynx Aurora 8 FireWire /192kHz throughout. 2x AcousticReality Ref. 202 & 2x AcousticReality Ref. 601īs ICEpower. Magnepan MG3.3R beechwood frames & custom stands. Miller chokes
cMP2 can run with an USB DAC via MoBo and asio4all . . .
Interesting post - thanks.
Just for the record, while cMP^2 runs with pretty well any USB DAC that has its own ASIO drivers, for those that don't, the AQVOX generic driver gives much better sound quality than ASIO4ALL.
Also, several cMP^2 users do not use upsampling: I even know of one who sometimes does and sometimes doesn't as, it seems, the mood takes him.
Dave
Hello,
Going from a multi use laptop with Ayre UDB DAC, to a Cmp2 player, I found I have no sound. Probably due to the use of a Juli@soundcard and the internal configurations, meaning I may have to take that card out and play through the on board sound-card again (the Ayre DAC turns that into the slave). But before trying things out and losing the way with consequence that I have to configure the Cmp2Player for the 4th time, I would like to ask for advice.
Would you know of a way to do this right? The Cmp2Player has not been in use yet, so I have no experience there.
Thank you very much for your much appreciated help!
Gaston
If you are now doing digital out either make sure you have configured the juli@ control panel to map through outputs 1 and 2 (or maybe 3 and 4). Its one or the other try both. Dont need to reboot. One set is for digital out. One is for analog out.
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