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In Reply to: RE: cMP - can't get it to work!!! posted by Eunegis on April 01, 2011 at 11:25:49
Just a guess but it looks like that card is only 24bit and cplay outputs 32bit only so it doesnt work with some cards like the xonar.
There might be some workaround I missed, but you COULD try another player or ditch the card.
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
Follow Ups:
Thanks Dawnrazor.
Doesn't sound too promising though...
The Cantatis must be a pretty good thing from a plain hardware point of view, I believe. Especially since I don't want to use an external DAC (that's why I exclude Juli@).Aren't there at least a fiew other Cantatis users here in the forum, also using cMP²? What's your experience?
Can anyone decipher cMPs diagnostic message mentioned in my basic post any further?
Edits: 04/02/11
Well, it looks like a lynx l22 is in your future :)
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
Well, one step further again, but still a little confused:
cPlay now plays if I switch the soundcard's driver and ASIO4ALL to 44,1kHz, but if I switch both to 192kHz no sound comes out from cPlay while Foobar plays (though stating "44,1kHz" in its bottom status bar).
Cues only work flawless if I let EAC rip whole diskimages.
What's wrong? Does anybody know where the connection between the soundcard's driver and ASIO4ALL fails at 192kHz (while working at 44,1kHz)?
If everything is witched to 192kHz the balloon popup in ASIO4ALL's options window if I hover the mouspointer over "Cantatis Overture 192 Audio Controller WDM" says:
DEVICE
Vendor: Cantatis Ltd. (Envy24HFS)
Location: PCI-Bus=1, Device 2, Function 0
Output: 2x8-192kHz, 32Bits
State: unexplainable
-> deactivate system sounds ( --- done, of course!)
-> deactivate unused inputs/outputs ( --- tried all options, didn't help)
-> audiodriver too old or too new? ( --- ...???)
-> computers are stupid! ( --- ...?????? (not kidding))
Strange comments, from my beginner's point of view (everything translated litterally from German)!
Any ideas???
Why don't you try reinstalling the sound card driver?
Remember to do this under Step 6 of Optimisation: To update a sound card driver, set Event Log, Cryptographic Services, Windows Audio and WMI to Automatic and start them. Once the update is installed and stable, reset them to Manual.
Good Luck!
Hmmm..., o.k., I'll try that. But I don't expect it to make a difference since testing the soundcard's driver itself (i.e. opening its control panel and sending a testtone via provided software buttons at different sample rates) yields correct sound all the time. That must be through the WDM drivers without utilizing ASIO.
In my imagination it could be a bug or inconsistency or misadjustment on the way from the soundcard to ASIO4ALL with ASIO4ALL not picking up the 192kHz-signal (or > 44,1kHz signal, i.e. any upsampled signal) correctly, probably because some other device or driver or service prohibits that. But WHAT can it be?
Uninstalled and reinstalled soundcard driver and ASIO4ALL - nothing. Still only sound when both set to 44,1kHz.:-(((((
What are they both doing? Is the soundcard driver telling the soundcard to upsample? If yes, what is ASIO4ALL doing then? Bypassing the kernelmixer, okay. But there's a 44,1kHz-type-of-signal from the ripped audio CDs, right? Does it matter if the kernelmixer is bypassed by a 44,1- or a 192kHz stream? Is ASIO4ALL upsampling while bypassing? What is the soundcard's driver doing then?
You can see: I'm not an expert at all! But there's a number of options in the soundcard'd driver options and in the ASIO4ALL options. And none of the switches seems to help. Mostly everything else in the system is strangled and suffocated. Where's the mistake?
Edits: 04/04/11
E,
A couple of suggestions.
SOme screen shots of the asio 4 all panel and the soundcard driver screen and windows soundcard options (control panel/sounds or something like that) might help us spot something.
And from the earlier posts I dont think you SET anything in the soundcard driver or asio 4 all.
At least with the m-audio card I just tested things with CPLAY would automatically change the asio4all settings.
I just installed it and both it and cplay and the m-audio screen said 44. I switched cplay to 176 and both asio 4all and the m-audio screen changed automatically.
Also while cplay is good about notifying you ASIO is kind of weird in that often it wont adjust on the fly. You have to make changes and then exit cplay and then reopen for the changes to take.
Everyone is at a different place in life but IMHO it might be better ditching your card and getting something like a Lynx that is known to work with cmp2. You talk about the card you have and while it does look like a good sounding card, Asio4all is not good sounding and you might be better off with real asio and a juli@. The Lynx is IMHO worth the investment regardless and if it saves you time in figuring this all out, it is IMHO money well spent!!
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
Agree with DR but either the lynx or juli@ (much cheaper in cost)are known soundcards that work fine.
At least I would add an E-MU 1212M, better performance than a Juli@
Hi B,
Even with the bloated creative drivers in the context of a cmp2 build???
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
ASIO is stable, just the Control Panil is slightly confusing. It's a much cleaner card than Juli@.
OK, how about compared to the lynx?
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
Hi Theob, Bibo and Dawnrazor,I've somehow missed this branch of the discussion so far... (wonder why)
But thanks for your suggestions.
I have a 9632 lying at home at the moment, but it's still un-unpacked (30 days money back). Don't know if its a good choice for the money. Comments here on the forum are so-so. There have even been statements like "Juli@ cleans the floor with 9632". On the other hand someone said that the 9632 is " open- and forward-sounding" in the mids (kind of a sonic personality of RME cards), which I like very much. Probably the differences are so subtle that a big investment won't pay off...
EMUs are supposed to be a little complicated in handling (integrating into the system) - no?! But I'm ready to beconme convinced...
I don't want to use an external DAC, which is why Juli@ isn't first choice. Most any Juli@ user here on the forum seems to drive an external DAC with it. But maybe I'm wrong and the analog output sound of the Juli@ is not so bad. Even cics has been cited that the Juli@ were on par with an AES16 (though I don't know if he referred to digital or analog out - but I believe cics is using an external DAC, too).
I'd really like to get my Overture going, but the way is narrowing visibly meanwhile... Will try other free ASIO wrappers the next days.
But I'm still open for hardware suggestions. I don't like my sound too analytic, I rather prefer a live-like sound that jumps at me.EDIT: the status, now that I've unticked "do not map through this device", is that the ASIO4ALL control panel doesn't show its weird misfunction messages any more. BUT: when I use ASIO there is still no assigning of the stereo channels to the driver. That means the information bars in foobar2000 and cPlay still and always show "channel not connected" for right/left channel. I believe that's the crucial point of my soundlessness. I have no idea why it is so and where to change that. In the sounds tab of XP's control panel there's nothing to set in that regard.
Any ideas?
Edits: 04/07/11 04/07/11
E,
The one thing that comes to mind is that we know cplay is 32 bit. Foobar is selectable. I ditched foobar long long ago but take a look at the settings and see if you can set the output to 24 bits. If you can save the settings, exit and see if you can get foobar to play.
Also if you followed the instructions in the cmp2 directions you should have no options in the xp soundcard settings. IIRC there should be no device available since the windows audio service, kmixer, etc are disabled. I didnt see this on the site but I do recall killing the kmixer and I think that was with autoruns.
My documentation was from a time before the cmp2 website existed so maybe things have changed???
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
Hi Dawnrazor, thanks for efforts and your experimental M-Audio installation! The linked switching is interesting - I'm far from that comfort.
After all my testing without the slightest countable results I'm mentally already on my way towards another soundcard (and throw the Overture in some "Bay"...). I only like the idea of this "poor man's approach" that the cMP² project seems to be from a superficial point of view, and I enjoy to build my eqipment myself (did it with the speakers, too - tremendous result sonically!), so I'm trying to avoid costly equipmet. But those who save too much at first pay double in the end...
By a German musicians equipment store (professional guys) a RME 9632 has been recommended to me. Reviews on the net describe it as really, really good sounding, even outperforming DACs below $1k. And it has truly pro driver support. It costs ~$500 in GER (the l22 is ~$1k). But we'll see, maybe I'll even switch to Lynx...
But nevertheless, I'll keep on working on the Overture/ASIO4ALL combo for a little more time and try to send you some screenshots (in case the stripped down XP still makes it).
E,
Ask your store if the RME will work with a cmp2 box :)
If you are looking at the rme do post on the cmp2 thread and see if any inmates can confirm that it works with the recipe.
Your problem is not your soundcard, it is that your soundcard doesnt work well with the cmp2 recipe.
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
Hi Dawnrazor,I totally agree!
Thats why I'm partly trying to roll back the most radical parts of my XP-stripping right now. But since I'm no expert I'm tumbling in the fog a little...Still its hard to accept that despite fairly defined interfaces (WDM <-> ASIO) and explicit claims of compatibility (Cantatis) a flawless talk between the stripped XP, the soundcard + its drivers and ASIO4ALL should not be possible (especially since the soundcard is supposed to be exclusively designed for high level audio reproduction without any of the spare weight of recording capabilities). A sad thing that is... (though: if it doesn't get any worse in life I'll be relaxed ;-))))
Edits: 04/07/11 04/07/11
I fortunately never had to mess with asio 4 all though I do recall it could do 192.
As for the eac cue thing, I think you are right that it just does one big file and then the cue works.
A different approach is to rip to multiple .wav files and use the recursive cue creator to create the cue sheets.
No time to find it, but do a search on this asylum and you will find a link to Alan Jordan's program. That approach will also allow for playlists within cmp2.
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
Thanks Dawnrazor, I'll try that.
Still ASIO4ALL works only at 44,1 kHz, not at sample rates above. I've tried to exclude all possible and impossible drivers via autoruns to prevent the soundcard getting blocked by other devices from ASIO4ALL's point of view, allthough these efforts seem unlikely to help to me because the whole system is stripped to the bone anyway - and indeed it didn't help so far. Next step would be to uninstall MIDI drivers in the soundcards menu (which I didn't do so far since I don't know how to reinstall them), but if I block any MIDI driver I can find via autoruns it should be just the same thing, shouldn't it!?
What the heck can block ASIO4ALL at > 44,1 kHz, but not at exactly 44,1 kHz??? I would expect it to be blocked all the time or never, but not depending on utilization of an upsamplig mode.
Are you having the above messages in cPlay Diagnostic?
Probably, the on board audio device is not disable in BIOS:
Integrated Peripherals
Disable Azalia codec
Good Luck!
Hi smicyta, thank you for your attentionBut unfortunately that is not the problem. EVERYTHING has been disabled all the time just as per cics' recommendations. And messages I get don't match yours.
Current status is this:
cPlay and foobar2000 both play at 44,1kHz through ASIO4ALL. Anything above yields no sound through both players while I can see both players working (i.e. counting the song's time or graphically doodling the equalizer).
If I open cPlay's preferences dialog I can see that left and right channel say "not connected" at > 44,1kHz while correctly connected at 44,1kHz. Same is valid for foobar2000.
At > 44,1kHz the ASIO4ALL preferences dialog says "device status unexplainable" no matter if launched through cPlay or foobar2000, while at 44,1kHz ASIO4ALL gives no hint of malfunction (=properly connected).My conclusion ist that somewhere in the XP-system things are set in a way that only a 44,1kHz signal is allowed to pass through to the soundcard while > 44,1kHz is blocked. Where can I find that switch?
Is it on the way from the soundfile/player to ASIO4ALL (bypassing kmixer), on the way from ASIO4ALL to the WDM-driver or from WDM to the soundcard (expressed in an amateurs words). I don't know exactly which way the audio stream goes, especially since ASIO4ALL is a socalled "wrapper" (and I don't really know about that), but my description might probably have at least some relation to reality.Does anybody know anything about a possible switch in XP (i.e. a driver or a service, or so) to look at to cure the blocking of signals > 44,1kHz?
Or should it be the soundcard's WDM-driver? I must admit that this would sound very unlikely to me since Cantatis on their website explicitly claim the Overure 192 to be fully ASIO- (and ASIOv2-) capable (even though they don't provide native drivers).
Edits: 04/05/11 04/05/11
Try this: Deselect Do not map through this device!
It works for playback in foobar2000 @ 176.4kHz, SoX resampler.
Good Luck!
Hi Smicyta,thanks for your hint. Did it and experienced a partial improvement - but still no sound > 44,1kHz.
Partial improvement insofar as the "device status unexplainable"-balloon-popup in the ASIO4ALL control panel is now gone, as well as the yellow "female-sign" associated with it! So the ASIO4ALL control panel seems to regard settings as adequate now for itself, as far as I can depict it.The remaining problem - and that turns out more and more to be the crucial point - is that the options dialog for ASIO4ALL (in cPlay and foobar the step before the ASIO control panel) constantly says "channel 1 left + channel 2 right not connected" when sample rate in the soundcard's options is switched > 44,1kHz. And I have no options anywhere to adjust that or pick something else.
I also tried to leave it at 44,1 in the soundcard's options and turn only cPlay to 192 (who knows...), but that didn't help either - no connection to the channels all the time.
Continue trying...
Edits: 04/07/11
Did you mapped the channel to something like this? For some cards, may have to mapped the correct device channel for the left and right. And also for some, if all device channels mapping are set to none, foobar2000 might continue playing but with no sound.
Exactly THAT is the problem!!!Mapping right at this point doesn't work. The device channels are not automatically mapped at > 44,1kHz, and I can't map them manually with ASIO4ALL (a channel list pops up upon clicking, but picking an option has simply no effect, eventually everything stays as before).
For some strange reason mapping works automatically and is correct at precicely 44,1kHz.
I can't find some - lets say - preparing step or switch in XP to achieve mapping capability at > 44,1kHz.
And the soundcard's driver is held overly simple, so there are no options to choose from either other than the sample rate and headphones/speakers on/off (which I've tried as well, of course).
Edits: 04/09/11 04/09/11
HI e,
Is your cplay set up like this:
And can you post shots of asio4all and your windows panel and your soundcards asio screen? If screen capture doesnt work then try just a pict of the screen.
There has to be something that we are missing. With asio you dont map the sample rate. You do map channels and sometimes if the mapping of the channels is wrong you might have issues. Cplay is nice because unlike foobar it just gets the mapping right and offers a simple dropdown.
The player should determine the sample rate.
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
O.K., here it is: go tohttp://eunegis.imgur.com/
and select the (only) album "Audio Asylum".
There are the screenshots I've taken.
If you need anything more just let me know, Sherlock...
I'm curious to hear if you can see anything more than I could!
Edits: 04/09/11
Hi Dawnrazor,
thanks for your efforts and your patience.
I'll try to create screenshots of all important panels and post them here. I hope I can make it this weekend.
Funny thing is: at the moment I'm using JRiver with its inbuilt kernel streaming (ASIO doesn't work here either) through cMP (as one would normally do it with cPlay) - and it works! Sample rate in the soundcard driver is set to 192kHz, and in JRiver I'm upsampling to 192kHz plus I use complete memory loading. So I have practically the same constellation with JRiver as I would have it with cPlay if it worked. The difference is basically only JRiver's more bloated interface and the fact that it doesn't assign decoding and upsampling to one core and the rest to the other, afaik (and to recognize anything in JRiver I have to switch XP to 16Bit color depth).
At least something - right? Maybe its not the worst workaround anyway, and JRiver offers advanced remote control capabilities, afaik.
But I'll try the screenshot thing nevertheless... (that's a question of pride and battle motivation meanwhile - and a sign of respect to those who contribute!)
just a wag (wild a guess) but I believe asio4all only works to 96 Khz.
Hi theob, thanks for your participation.
Unfortunately: no, ASIO4ALL works with sample rates that are a straight multiplier of 44,1 or 48 as long as the soundcard makes it (ASIO4ALL forum, M. Tippach himself commented).
Tried all other options mentioned in the how-to of ASIO4ALL, especially blocking MIDI-devices (not mentioned in cics' advice, or at least I've never found it), but only 44,1kHz works.
Strange, since all other information points to flawless work at 192kHz.
The ASIO4ALL driver states the device as "unexplainable", which is practically the same es "blocked by some other device" (according to ASIO4ALL manual). But there is nothing around in the system other than things allowed by cics' advice. Even MIDI is blocked, only "standard devices" are allowed, which means plain soundcard stereo output, no system sounds.
I'd really like to try these advanced upsample algorithms provided by cPlay, so I guess I'll need 192kHz for that...
Hmmm... - Lynx l22 = €620,- in Europe - looks like a VERY DISTANT future...
I've fiddled things to the point where my cue sheets work, even though cues for single files need manual correction for each flac/wav mentioned in the sheet, and EAC-cues need less correction than CPlayListEditor's cues.
If I create an image of the whole disc with EAC the cues work out of the box (surprising to me - thought, single files should have been the way to go).
BUT: no sound from cPlay yet! Test of the soundcard through its driver's test tone seperate for each channel yields sound, foobar via ASIO plays flawless as well.
Don't know if ASIO4ALL might cause the trouble, but the logs say ASIO's initialization is ok. And there isn't so much to adjust. Must be the interaction between ASIO and cPlay (which should have already been tested excessively, though). Can buffer values cause complete seizure of sound, or do they only affect quality? I've left everything at defaults in this regard so far.
Anybody?
Checked driver descriptions of a few other soundcards in the meantime: none says anything about 32bit processing, only 24bit can be found.
Tried tweaking .pth-files of cMP and cicsPlay according to my system - cPlay starts now and ASIO4ALL initializes w/o problems, but cue-processing fails.
Continue trying...
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