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In Reply to: RE: SSD Questions... (and a request for cics!) posted by GStew on January 27, 2011 at 18:33:14
This would allow use of a small SSD for the system (as you are doing) and music playback while getting the benefit of having only the SSD powered during music playback.
This is exctly what I do on my cMP^2 rig except that I copy to an old 2.5", 4,500 rpm HDD (not an SSD) and do so over a network, not locally. It takes about 15 seconds to copy an hour's worth of flac-format music data. An SSD might be faster.
I use Explorer to browse the music server and copy data to a folder called E:\Music. Copying complete, I quit Explorer to find cMP displaying the copied album or albums (and only them) as normal. It's cMP that launches the player, not Explorer: there are no sonic penalties.
The system was set up using a few batch files, shortcuts and the like and, in practice, has worked reliably for over a year. I don't see any need to alter cMP at least to try the method. It took a while to get it just right but I have notes on what I did. If anyone is interested, shout.
With an SSD, there is of course the issue of wear levelling. However, as a guesstimate, an 80-GB disc should hold an OS partition and about 200 flac-format albums. Thus, even if it wears out completely after 5,000 write cycles, that's 10 hours of playing every day for 250 years. With wav files, you'd have to head for the shops after a mere 80 years.
In short, in this application at least, I don't see it as much of an issue though I should stress that I have no experience with the devices.
Follow Ups:
I'M SHOUTING. Or more politely yes I am interested.
I wrote some notes a while back for a user interested in a headless cMP^2 setup. I think (hope) that with the slight editing I've just done they'll answer your point and by and large make sense. Screenshots at the end; whisper quietly if you have queries.Dave
++++
* If you want to store data on a separate server, you obviously need to move the data over the network. However, a stripped-down XP system (especially the ‘minlogon’ change) inevitably means that some networking facilities are restricted. It is necessary e.g. to use the ‘Net Use’ command to map to a network volume; it seems it is not possible to access more than one network share from the target; a folder on the target can only be shared by re-enabling a bundle of stuff better left off. And so on. These restrictions are not unduly difficult to work round but it helps to be aware of them.
More serious, cMP's UI can be unreliable when pulling data from a network share and can crash, especially, for whatever obscure reason, if using flac-format files. I can get over this if I use wav format only or I leave Isass on but wavs have other issues and I feel that the loss of sound quality from enabling Isass is too high a price to pay. A workround for this snag was thereore needed.
* However a music library is organised, it works best in this context if it is all stored on one ‘shared’ volume on the server. The cMP^2 box logs onto this after booting up. I connect to it when booting the target in cMP mode by hitting the ‘RIP’ button to launch a BAT file. I then browse for music using a ‘tweaked’ Explorer setup and copying the selection(s) into a folder on the target that is ‘watched’ by cMP.
The result is that there is no network activity during playback. I hear no difference between playing off the network or off a local drive.
* As there is no security software on the cMP^2 box but the server will typically be connected to the 'net, I link the target to the server using a dedicated NIC and two fixed IPs not in the main network’s address range and use a strong router password.
How secure all this is I can't say but I've had no issues for the best part of a year and, for general networking, for the best part of the ten years I've used the router. Security aside, the main benefit for a CMP setup is that, esp with a 1,000 MBits/sec link, it's fast. The cost of a Gigabit NIC nowadays is trivial. I set the link to use ‘Jumbo Frames’ and think it makes a difference though it's been a while since I timed it.
Setting up Explorer as cMP's UI
Note that the ‘Explorer’ button in the cMP window works by design in ‘cMP Mode’ only. (I seem to recall it's a compatibility issue.) This routine therefore works only in that mode. It’s not an issue in practice as the SQ in ‘XP Mode’ is noticeably poorer.
The idea is to create a couple of batch files and a few shortcuts to folders on the music server and use them to automate simple routines. The configuration is done with the target running in ‘XP Mode’ and controlled from the server using VNC.
Step 1: Create batch files.
First, edit
C:\Program Files\cics Memory Player\cics Memory Player.pth as follows:
RIPPER #H ‘c:\Logon.bat’
CUE_PLAYER #N ‘c:\program files\cics Play\cicsPlay.exe’ %C
LIBRARY_MANAGER ‘C:\reset.bat’
OSK “ ”
PROCESS_EXPLORER ‘c:\program files\process explorer\procexp.exe’ /p:n
EXPLORER_KILL ‘c:\windows\system32\taskkill.exe’ /F /IM explorer.exe
TOUCH_SCREEN “ ”
PREP_PLAYERSecond, create C:\logon.bat file:
Net use M: \\MusicServer\Music /user:MusicServer\User password:
where M:\ is the assigned drive letter, \MusicServer is (go on, take a guess) the network name of the music server, Music is the network name of the shared volume on the server and ‘User’ is a user authorised to access it (i.e. on the server, not on the target). The password is blank. No doubt a password would work but I've not tried.
E:\ is a partition on the target set up as the default user's ‘My Documents’ folder. (Under minlogon, only the default user can access things as there is no logging on. It works fine in practice.)
Third, create C:\Reset.bat file.
@echo off
E:
RD E:\Music /s /q
MD E:\Music
c:\windows\explorer.exeThis empties the E:\Music folder by removing and re-creating it and then launches Explorer.
* Two batch files are used as logging on takes a moment or two and is unnecessary after boot up - the second batch file saves a short but unnecessary wait.
Step 2: Edit the ‘Send To’ menu:
The default user's ‘Send To’ menu is hidden: make hidden and system files visible, create a short cut to E:\Music, copy it into:
C:\Documents and Settings\Default User\SendTo
and rename it "Music". Other items in the folder should either be set to ‘Hidden’ or deleted. See screenshot.
Step 3: Tidy up Explorer:
Using TweakUI, hide superfluous drives such as C:\ or D:\. Using Registry edits, hide ‘My Network’ and any other whimsical crap that gets up your nose. (I usually hide ‘Control Panel’ as well but it's still there for now.) None of this matters, it just makes for a neater UI.
Step 4: Create shortcuts:
Using Explorer, create shortcuts (Favorites) to various folders on the music volume and copy them to E:\ by dragging them from Favorites > Organize Favorites. Create a folder in E:\ called Music.
Step 5: Configure cMP
Launch cMP and go into ‘Settings’. Add E:\Music to the library. You can safely remove everything else.
+++++
You're done. Set to ‘cMPMode’ and restart. Click on ‘RIP’ and then either play what cMP recognises or click on Explorer to launch the second batch file.
Browse to the album you want to play, right-click on the folder and use ‘Send to’ to copy it to E:\Music.
Quit Explorer. cMP now displays the album you copied over. Double-click or hit Return to play it.
When play finishes, quit cPlay as normal and hit Explorer. This runs Reset.bat and, well, resets things. Back in the navigation window, proceed as before.
++++
Pic 1: Setup the "Send to" facility.
Pic 2: Use shortcuts to navigate the server quickly. Note that I called the target in this screenshot "Current" not "Music". Best kept short so "Music" it now is.
Pic 3: Copy selected data to the "Music" folder.
Edits: 01/28/11
ok Dave I want to try this but there are a lot of things for which I need more understanding.
First edit of cmp is easy I think. I create a new file in Notepad and replace my original cmp file in Program Files with this new one.
2nd: Second, create C:\logon.bat file:
Net use M: \\MusicServer\Music /user:MusicServer\User password:
where M:\ is the assigned drive letter, \MusicServer is (go on, take a guess) the network name of the music server, Music is the network name of the shared volume on the server and ‘User’ is a user authorised to access it (i.e. on the server, not on the target). The password is blank. No doubt a password would work but I've not tried.
E:\ is a partition on the target set up as the default user's ‘My Documents’ folder. (Under minlogon, only the default user can access things as there is no logging on. It works fine in practice.)
How do I do this? I can create a new file on Notepad but where do I put it? Do I have to name it? I have never 'knowingly' set up a bat file so I am unclear here.
3rd:Third, create C:\Reset.bat file.
@echo off
E:
RD E:\Music /s /q
MD E:\Music
c:\windows\explorer.exe
Again same question as above...how do I set this up?
I think I can struggle through the other steps but this is what I need to get started for now.
If I have this right, you are looking for a setup in which you have a small SSD holding an OS and a larger, conventional drive holding a music library. Each album to be played is to be copied from the library drive to the SSD so the former can be spun down during replay.
Let’s assume you’ve put three partitions on the SSD. The first (Drive C:) is, say, 8192 MB and holds the main OS, the second (Drive D:) is also 8192 MB and holds (or can hold) a second OS install and the third (Drive E:) comprises the rest of the drive. We shall move music files from the separate library drive (called, say, M:) over to Drive E: on the SSD to play them.
I do something very similar except that the library drive is on a network, not another SATA port. Why I do that doesn’t matter for now - what does matter is that the scheme is realised with a couple of tiny programs called “batch files” that are so easy to write that even a programming illiterate like me can do it.
You’ll find them described in a hundred places on the net - they work in all versions of DOS and Windows. Any text file with a .bat extension (rather than the usual .txt) will, if you double-click on it in Explorer, invoke it from the command line or launch it from another batch file, perform as a .BAT file. Getting it to perform properly can be, of course, more interesting.
As you’ll only be copying data locally, you only need “Reset.bat”; forget about “Logon.bat”.
++++
First step: Open Notepad, copy and paste in this text:
@echo off
C:
RD C:\Music /s /q
MD C:\Music
c:\windows\explorer.exe
and save the file as “Reset.bat”: go to File > Save As and set “Save as type” to “Any Files” and type “C:\Reset.bat” in the filename box.
Though still a text file, as it has the .bat extension, it will be recognised by the OS as a batch file. By putting C:\ at the front, you’ve told the OS to save it in the root directory of drive C.
In this case, Reset.bat deletes the folder called E:\Music and its contents, creates a new, empty folder of the same name and then, but only then, launches Explorer. As for the code:
@echo off means “Please don’t fuss”;
E: means “go to Drive E:” (edit to suit your setup);
RD E:\Music means “delete the directory and its files”; /s /q means “just do it”;
MD E:\Music means “make a new copy of the directory”;
C:\Windows\Explorer.exe means “Launch explorer”.
++++
Second step: edit cMP’s .pth file. Simply change the “Library Manager” line to read:
LIBRARY_MANAGER "c:\Reset.bat".
This tells cMP that, when you click on the “Explorer” button in the cMP window, it shouldn’t launch Explorer.exe as it normally does but should run “C:\Reset.bat” instead.
++++
Third step: make a directory in E:\ and call it “Music”; right-click on it in Explorer (RH pane) and select “Create Shortcut”. Make hidden and system files visible in Explorer and move the short cut to C:\Documents and settings\Username\SendTo. For now, you can either leave the other crud in the folder or (recommended) delete it. Rename the shortcut to, say, "Music". Restore Explorer's "View" settings.
++++
Fourth step: In cMP’s “Settings” window, set “Default View” to “All”, add E:\Music to the “Folders” list and (optional but recommended) remove all others.
++++
Fifth step: Set your power scheme to power down unused drives to whatever you want. If you're using a "green" drive, it may just power down regardless.
++++
That’s it. To select an album in cMP, click on the Explorer button and navigate to your choice, right click on its folder name and click on “Send to” > Music.
The album is copied from the spinning rust drive to the E:\Music folder on the SSD. That done, close Explorer and you’ll see that cMP is waiting to play your file. Start it as normal.
All the above should take less time to do than it did me to write it up. The screenshots you've already had.
The world awaits your report . . .
Dave
Ok Dave very clear thanks but one more question what if I have just a 4 gig thumb drive plugged into a usb port, will this still work? I know that if I had a true ssd with an os partition and all it would be better yet but running music files off a thumb drive still sounds better than running from any of my 2.5" lap top drives. As a result I would like to do this then migrate to a true ssd drive.
If I have just a 4 gig thumb drive plugged into a usb port, will this still work?
I can't think why not though IME writing to a thumb drive tends to be on the slow side. (That said, mine are both about five years old.)
Whatever, they should be fine for a trial. Obviously, you'll need to alter the batch file slightly.
HTH
Also where do you set your Power schemes to minimize drive power consumption? This a biggie because as Cics has taught us the less power consumption the more efficient that cmp^2 becomes.
I know Cics told us to set power schemes to always on.
Cics told us to set power schemes to always on.
His setup is different.
If you want to turn the conventional HDD off, you can do so in Display Properties > ScreenSaver > Power and set your drives to turn off in, say, 3 minutes.
If OTOH you don't want to turn the drives off, I'd have thought that that might make the exercise a tiny bit pointless.
As I saw it, the idea was to try using an SS storage medium only during playback. The snag, of course, is that these are typically too small for most music libraries. What I'm suggesting is a way round that problem, not a perfect solution but a solution nonetheless. Why not just try both options and let us know?
Whatever, I've just tried using a USB Memory Stick to hold the target data on the lines you suggest. I think you could well be right - it does seem to sound rather better. As feared, it's as slow as old boots at writing data though it reads fine.
Well worth persevering with for a bit longer though I fear an SSD is still a bit pricey for me at the moment.
Couple of strikeouts setting power options to shut down drives after 3 minutes hangs up the pc when I try to go to another drive. So I reset to Always On. When I tried the (lets call Dave way) and I click on Explore I get no data. Do I need to initialize Settings to include Process Explorer for Start up?
I reset to Always On.
Fair enough. The setting seems to work OK here - perhaps a BIOS/ACPI thing??
I click on Explore [and] get no data.
Remember this works only when using the cMP shell. You never get any data if you launch Explorer from cMP in XP Mode. If you haven't already done so, go to cMP Settings > select Start CMP > Restart and try again. See link.
If you have done that, restore the original .pth setting and confirm that Explorer works OK by itself. If not (unlikely), you need to fix that first. Easiest way would be to reinstall cMP.
If Explorer is OK, go back into XP Mode, copy any old data into the E:\Music (or whatever you called it) folder then test the Reset.bat file:
Start > Run > type Reset.bat & hit OK.
The data you copied should disappear and Explorer should start up. If not, you need to fix the batch file.
Do I need to initialize Settings to include Process Explorer for Start up?
No - Process Explorer is something else altogether.
Explorer was not ok : I got hung up in a different way...had to reboot. So I just uninstall old cmp and download cmp from cmp site and reinstall...just like a new cplay version?
Explorer was not ok
It really does sound from here as if you are running in XP Mode. Can you quickly double check that you're in cMP Mode and confirm??
just like a new cplay version?
Yes.
Feel free to use PM if you prefer - this might take a while . . .
I have to say that playing from a USB memory stick is sounding very good indeed - most grateful for the tip. The trouble is that it takes two minutes or more to copy over a CD but even then it's worth it for serious listening.
It's definitely worth your persisting and getting to try it.
I am definitely in cmp mode. This will take a while on my side too. I can't pm you from my side since I use gmail now (theobetley@gmail.com) and AA launches the windows email.
I reloaded cmp and I still cant open explore on top of the cmp screen. It justs dumps me out of cmp and I end up at what looks like my desktop but everything is hung up to the extent I have to reboot.
This is a great idea. Will try today and let you know how it works. Its still the wee hours of the morning here and
I have to wait until the better have wakes.
Edits: 01/30/11
This is fantastic thanks. I now have to figure out how to just swap files onto a ssd from regular drives (don't have a NAS).Mark this is what you need too.
Edits: 01/28/11
I now have to figure out how to just swap files onto a ssd from regular drives
That's what the setup here is doing. Music data are stored on a standard 1TB, 3.5" HDD located on a desktop box and shared on a network. To play an album, I copy the data from it onto the target drive - in my case a 2.5" rust spinner, in yours (I presume) an SSD - which is attached to the music player.
The networking part is incidental. You can as easily move the data from, say, a storage drive attached to one SATA port on your cMP^2 box to an SSD attached to another.
My main point is that Explorer and a few batch files can readily make a good music browser if, for whatever reason, cMP's GUI isn't suitable. It would IMHO integrate an SSD rather well. BTW, here's how my cMP settings menu looks - I haven't changed it in months.
(don't have a NAS).
Me neither.
Always kind, Dave, thanks!
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