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In Reply to: RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player posted by cics on December 30, 2007 at 05:42:01
Does someone already try one the last MSB dac IV with Cmp Cplay ?
We often talk about DCS dac and I'm happy with my delius. But reading on Internet make me think that MSB product are more than serious and have made a lot of progress since their linkdac III AND it's could be one of the most serious company about dac.
Have a look at their incredible dac IV (costing up to 30.000 $!). Would be curious to heard it with the right amplifier (Soulution 700 ?) and speaker (Magico ?) with CICS comuter.
MSB has a good paper on jiter
http://www.msbtech.com/support/JitterPaper.pdf
Nicolas
Follow Ups:
It's refreshing to see MSB doing good work on jitter. They're the first manufacturer I've seen that understands how to measure jitter distortion. MSB's jitter paper is a good read however, their 2ps jitter level is very optimistic:
Based on my calculations, periodic jitter (on 11.025kHz input) will yield side band distortion levels of ~-149db and not the -137dbrms (-134db actual) shown in their plots. At this indicated level, jitter is ~12ps. Overall jitter measurement requires measuring all jitter spectra (at many different levels) and express the overall jitter as RSS (Root Sum of Squares) . Periodic jitter doesn't occur at a given jitter frequency but over a wide spectrum. Hence, its always good to have a PLL based XO design to remove jitter at high frequencies.
In my experience, transports have far larger impact on jitter distortion at DAC outputs. The DAC is "tethered" to the transport. So you better off upgrading your cMP² power supplies (to linear) instead of a new DAC. My reason for switching to dCS was for 192k input (as my AA Prestige SE only does 96k). They are both excellent DACs.
Anyway, I'm looking to upgrading my speakers... any recommendations?
Have a listen to the Harbeth's. I have the 25Anniversary SHL5. The anniversary editions have slightly better matching and other internal upgrades. If your room size is up to it the 40.1 is phenomenal sounding though I have never heard them in my own setup. I power mine with an 18 w PP 300b, a 30 watt PP KT88 and a 50watt 2505 depending on my mood. I no longer use a dac I use the L22 cardas breakout analog out. That way I don't have any issues with hi rez. I never really go much louder than 12:00 very refined detail with excellent imaging. FWIW T.
No worries!
On the speaker question I can only suggest Quad ESL of any flavour.
Mine are One Thing Audio reconditioned/modified ESL63, mounted off the floor on sand boxes, driven by a Quad 909. They are VERY transparent and your reductions in PC jitter come through very clearly but most importantly (to my ears) they are true to the music...
They are also robust enough to survive my Labrador !!!
best wishes and keep up the good work
I agree that really good electrostatic speakers are very revealing of subtleties in front end changes. I have Martin Logan Monolith III's which I recommend but I also wholeheartedly agree that Quads will not disappoint.
Estats are very good at revealing transient performance.
About the "network" input of MSB dac : I'm questionning myself about the msbnetwork as they are able to upgrade many dvd drive with this, I'm thinking about the upgrade of this on a sound card, I'm quite sure they are able to do that. This would permit to output up to 392 khz from computer to the dac in a very good way.
About speaker, I'm a big fan of monitor speaker, I have Proac response 1 Sc. For me if would change I would try the response D2 and if more money the mini magico.
Have you ever hear of the new amplier Devialet D-premier, I would dream to try it with a cmp/cplay computer. They are a lot of very good talk and review. It accept direct digital connection as it's a combination of class D and class A, but in review I have read, they feeding it with what I will say bad digital link. On review is done with the LINN DS accurate and the result is wonderfull.
Nicolas
Hi Cics,
Thank you for putting the ‘not so white’ paper from MSB into perspective.
* On power supply.
I’m glad you mention use of linear PSU’s.
Improving the power supply (in my setup and my situation) yielded the most sound quality improvement.
May be on your website, you should encourage people somewhat more, to improve the power supply of a cMP setup.
For instance: you encourage the use of 2 ATX PSU’s.
But what about encouraging people too use 2 linear driven Pico’s?
I know: Pico’s are also ‘switchers’. But it’s my feeling that 2 switching Pico’s give better sound quality, than using 2 (switching) ATX PSU’s. I don’t know why that is. It’s just my impression from listening.
* Suggestion for new speakers.
It will not come as a big surprise: I would recommend too have a good listen too active speakers. I think the whole concept of active speakers is a much better approach. Technically as well as economically. Have a good look at manufacturers like: ATC, PMC, Quested, Geithain, ect
Mark
fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
Mark,
May be on your website, you should encourage people somewhat more, to improve the power supply of a cMP setup.
I agree totally. Though truth be told i really want to do this on my cmp2 rig. But I certainly havent seen anything like a cmp2 type project for this. I mean anykind of step by step instructions.
Just fabulous picts of diy efforts and mentions of a vellman supply, which I dont get how that would power everything.
And why the need for the pico at all? Why cant one just wire up a 12 v supply?
See, I need some kind of brainless how to.
Anyone know of one or want to write one??
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
That full ATX Linear PS remains a challenge for many. Any ideas on how to get this manufactured in small quantities? At the right price, it would be popular.
Many thanks to all of you for the speaker recommendations. Its been 5+ years with my Nova Utopia Be speakers.
I agree with powered speakers - they're great value and deliver excellent results. My mini setup (now disconnected) is based on JMLab's Solo 6 - it's the only version that uses analogue inputs directly - all others convert to digital... Electrostatic speakers (QUAD, ML) is something I should look into in future.
After some back and forth with a few dealers, I finally settled on Sonus Faber's Stradivari. My first choice was Magico's new Q5 but the deal made poor economic sense (i.e. I refuse to overpay). Anyway I'm very glad it turned out this way as the Strads are showing magnificent potential. Overall balance is very very good. Still its early days (only a few hours break-in)... Also, SF is under new ownership and their new direction ( Fenice ) is not to my taste at all. I auditioned Wilson Audio's Alexandria just to get a reference of sorts. The Strads certainly delivers (just not at the very bottom which is not a priority for me). I think the Strads are Franco Serblin's finest creation (Franco is no longer at SF). Oh that glorious midrange performance is revealing and very addictive!
Hi Cics,
Congratulations on your SF Stradivarius purchase. Very beautiful design and very well crafted. Also with very good driver units. Coincidence: before I switched too Klein & Hummel O300 I used their Grand Piano’s. I like the SF sound very much. They matched very well with my NAIM NAP 250 / NAC82 setup.
I never heard of Magico and there Q5’s before. But studying their website I like their innovative approach and designs. But at $ 89.000,- . Omphh.. I have to work for that one whole year. :-S
Enjoy your new SF Stradivarius !
Mark
fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> ESI Juli@ -> Van den Hul Optocoupler MkII-> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
I never heard of Magico and there Q5’s before. But studying their website I like their innovative approach and designs. But at $ 89.000,- . Omphh..
Its a poor pricing decision given that Strads are ~$45k. The same can be said of Pioneer's TAD-R1 ($60k+) which was on my list as well. I haven't heard a speaker that brings it all together as well as the Strads - this includes Wilson's Alexandria at ~$150k. Strads are that good (after a few days break-in), they're easy to drive (a pleasant surprise) and thoroughly engaging!
Its amazing how SF achieved this level of performance without using Be drivers. Those silk ring-radiating tweeters are stunning and easily surpasses what I experienced on my previous JMLab's Be version.
Congratulation on your newly acquired speakers. I like SF for their built and sonic quality. Had read about the Fernice. Did you manage to have a listen to this speaker?
I would like to take this opportunity to wish you and all Christian inmates a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
No chance of any audition of Fenice. Given the small quantity I doubt many will get to hear them. Its a big departure from SF's "small" speaker approach.
Congrats on your new speakers! I'm sure you made the right choice. Harking back to my many years attending CES I never heard a Sonus Faber I didn't like and like a lot!
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