Computer Audio Asylum

Posted by Christine Tham (R) on July 01, 2009 at 16:38:00

Howdy,

I had a bicycle accident a fortnight ago, which ripped out some skin from my arm and gave me a really sore shoulder (luckily, no broken bones).

In order to take my mind off the pain, I have been playing around with Sonar and created a few tracks (mainly to practice my orchestration and mixing techniques).

Everything has been mixed and mastered at 64-bits using Sonar x64 and Vista x64. All effects processing (including analog modelling and convolution reverb) have been rendered in 64-bits as well. Final dithering is done using pow-r3. I really like the "clean" sound of the mixes - significant step up from 32-bit mixing (someday hopefully all commercial recordings will be mixed in 64-bits).

The original source waves have been captured at 44.1kHz 24-bit, so the final mix is also rendered in this resolution. There is probably only a marginal benefit in rendering at 88.2kHz.

Anyway, I have included a sample track in FLAC format for you to download (at the end of this post) and enjoy. I don't know who the original musicians are - I thought the pianist might have been Hee Foo but he said it's not him, and to be honest it doesn't sound like his style.

Here's a set of listening notes for all the tracks. If anyone is interested in listening to the other tracks, just send me email and I'll burn the FLAC files onto a DVD (or render down to a CD). The files are way too large to post on the Internet. The tracks span a number of genres, so don't assume that the sample is representative of the set.

1. Big Sur Romance

This is a romantic piece from Christopher Franke's first solo album after leaving Tangerine Dream, entitled Pacific Coast Highway. I've re-imagined it as a piano and flute duo, supported by synth filter sweeps (that hint of waves from the Pacific Ocean, as a nod to the album title), plus bells that evoke the aura of Spanish missionaries that used to be dotted around this route, or perhaps New Age wind chimes.

2. Laputa

Laputa, Castle in the Sky (天空の城ラピュタ) is the first animation film from Studio Ghibli, directed by master animationist Hayao Miyazaki (宮崎駿) the "Walt Disney" of Japan. It is a stirring adventure/science fiction story loosely based on "Laputa" from Swift's Gulliver's Travels. This is a version of the ending theme (君をのせて) but interpreted by a jazz piano trio (piano, bass, drums). The recording is then treated to make it sound like a 1950s jazz recording, conjuring visions of a smoky jazz club.

3. Carpenters Medley

This is a combination of Close to You and We've Only Just Begun, but orchestrated and mixed with a sweet, "retro" 1960s studio session sound. Very high sugar content.

4. Atlan

Perry Rhodan was a highly successful German "pulp" science fiction series in the 1960s, and Christopher Franke composed an album based on it. Atlan, the Solitary Spirit of Time is presented here in a lush orchestral arrangement, with a combination of brass and woodwind instruments (trumpet, flute, french horn, oboe, clarinet) carrying the main melody supported by a full string ensemble, piano and orchestral percussion (timpani, cymbals).

5. Theme

This is inspired by Tangerine Dream, one of the pioneering German electronic bands originating from the 1960s. They are still going strong and very prolific, I lost count after more than 100 albums. This piece starts off sounding like a Tangerine Dream film score, with the piano, bass and cello all sounding slightly "fake" (reminiscent of early sampler technology used by the band). After a vocalise bridge, the music segues into pure electronica, with "old school" synth leads and basses dominating the rhythmic conclusion (no surprise that for a brief period of time, remixed versions of the band's music were popular in German discos).

6. A Cruel Angel's Thesis

The opening theme song for popular Japanese science fiction anime TV series Neon Generis Evangelion. I have gone all out to make this sound as "manic" and "robotic" as possible, with no less than two separate drum kits driving the music along.

7. Are You Going With Me?

This is an interesting arrangement (originally commissioned by Roland Corporation to showcase their Sound Canvas synthesizers) of one of Pat Metheny Group's most popular songs (from the Offramp album, and the earliest studio recording featuring the now familiar "Pat" synth guitar sound). Pat's laconic "guitar synth solo" floats over Lyle's Oberheim "fluty" sound, over a drum track that progressively gets slower and slower ...

8. Tubular 2000

A homage to Mike Oldfield, with brief snatches from Tubular Bells, Ommadawn and even The Millenium Bells.

9. Purple Waves

To close off the album, another song from Pacific Coast Highway. The arrangement is very similar to Big Sur Romance, but the piano is now treated to sound "sunken", as if the piano is playing beneath the Pacific Ocean, submerged by the waves. Again, bells toll over the cliffs, reminiscent of Spanish mission churches (or perhaps hippie communes).

• 02 Laputa (FLAC format)   (Open in New Window)

• Confusion, due to two separate problems - Tony Lauck 14:01:44 07/02/09 (1)
  In Reply to: RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) posted by Christine Tham on July 01, 2009 at 16:38:00

  I downloaded the file yesterday and had no trouble playing it with cPlay. However, after reading the thread I ascertained that dBpoweramp and the FLAC front end would not convert the file. And others reported they couldn't play.

  Here is the situation:

  1. Some people are using old FLAC software which can not read the newer format (a problem only with 24 bit data, not 16 bit). They may get part way into the file and then strange things happen. When I try to play the file with SoundForge 9c this is in fact what happens, because SoundForge hasn't updated their FLAC library routines.

  2. There was bad metadata, which was put into the file by your software. The effect of this is for the FLAC library to report an error. If you use FLAC frontend you will see the error message, and deduce that it is related to metadata (as some posters did). If you ignore the error you may get a decoded wav file, but in my case it was truncated a bit at the end. However, if you take the time to look at the FLAC Frontend GUI you will see there is a check box to "decode through errors". If you set this, the FLAC front end will simply ignore the bad headers and produce a valid wav file that plays all the way through.

  Presumably dBPowerAmp does not set the "decode through errors" option, but cPlay does. This is an appropriate choice, IMO, because with a player you probably want to hear the music such as it is. With a conversion tool you probably want to know about a problem before it's too late.

  
  Oh well. Computers.... :-)

  
  Tony Lauck
  
  "Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
  
  

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  Edits: 07/02/09

  • Yes indeedy. - Squonk 14:16:21 07/02/09 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: Confusion, due to two separate problems posted by Tony Lauck on July 02, 2009 at 14:01:44

    This problem woke me up to the realization that I haven't updated several of my programs in quite some time. Oopsie! Taking care of this as I write this. :)
    

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• Plays fine - The Sound Guy 11:36:51 07/02/09 (0)
  In Reply to: RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) posted by Christine Tham on July 01, 2009 at 16:38:00

  Thanks for the track. It sounds good although the piano in the first 20 secs sounds a little thin/harsh.
  
  I probably downloaded your original file (downloaded @ 2am GMT, July 2nd) and it plays fine without errors on Foobar 0.9.5.5 but only 40 secs of the track plays on Foobar 0.8.3 I think that older players using older FLAC decoders have trouble decoding FLAC 1.2.1 encoded files. This is documented at http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=57572&st=75 So those having trouble please check if your FLAC decoder is up to date.
  
  Why don't you please upload all the files? Track #2 is only 20 MB and mediafire allows uploads up to 100 MB per file. Rapidshare.com allows up to 200 MB per file. Surely uploading these files will be cheaper than a international mailing! Please do upload these files although it would be nice to get a free disc from you!

  • http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=5757   (Open in New Window)

  
  

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• RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) - Wayne1 09:04:00 07/02/09 (0)
  In Reply to: RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) posted by Christine Tham on July 01, 2009 at 16:38:00

  Received decoding error at 42 seconds playing back on foobar.
  
  The first 30 seconds sounded very nice. I would be interested in hearing more of the album.
  
  Thank you for sharing.
  

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• Weired piano location - soundchekk 05:57:20 07/02/09 (0)
  In Reply to: RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) posted by Christine Tham on July 01, 2009 at 16:38:00

  Hi Christine.
  
  
  The piano (Or were there two of them?) sounds weired on my desktop rig. The piano solo appears pretty much on the right channel, whereas the main
  piano playback is located between center and left side.
  

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• Update: re-uploaded the file with no metadata - Christine Tham 03:15:30 07/02/09 (3)
  In Reply to: RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) posted by Christine Tham on July 01, 2009 at 16:38:00

  Have confirmed that it decodes perfectly using dbpoweramp

  • New version of Laputa (FLAC)   (Open in New Window)

  
  

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  • Sorry Christine, The Sound Guy is right, - Squonk 13:42:26 07/02/09 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: Update: re-uploaded the file with no metadata posted by Christine Tham on July 02, 2009 at 03:15:30

    I needed to update FLAC decoder. The file converts just fine now. The SQ is very nice.
    

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  • Nope, still not decoding to WAV with dBpoweramp. - Squonk 06:54:53 07/02/09 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: Update: re-uploaded the file with no metadata posted by Christine Tham on July 02, 2009 at 03:15:30

    The info on the file says, '2116 kbps' but, when you play the FLAC file using WinAmp, it says it's playing a 1297 kbps file. ?

    Anyway, the SQ is very good playing in FLAC. It does sound a bit synthetic though. Were all the instruments computer generated?
    

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    Edits: 07/02/09
  • RE: Update: re-uploaded the file with no metadata - soundchekk 05:48:27 07/02/09 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: Update: re-uploaded the file with no metadata posted by Christine Tham on July 02, 2009 at 03:15:30

    It is working now. THX
    

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• Please - skip dithering and provide 24/44.1 - soundchekk 01:25:21 07/02/09 (10)
  In Reply to: RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) posted by Christine Tham on July 01, 2009 at 16:38:00

  
  Why don't you skip the dithering? Dithering itself can make a lot of trouble.
  
  
  I'd appreciate 24/44.1
  

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  • The file is in 24/44.1, encoded with the reference FLAC encoder - Christine Tham 01:58:40 07/02/09 (9)
    In Reply to: RE: Please - skip dithering and provide 24/44.1 posted by soundchekk on July 02, 2009 at 01:25:21

    Suggest you may want to re-download if you are getting decoding errors.
    

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    • RE: The file is in 24/44.1, encoded with the reference FLAC encoder - soundchekk 02:08:44 07/02/09 (6)
      In Reply to: RE: The file is in 24/44.1, encoded with the reference FLAC encoder posted by Christine Tham on July 02, 2009 at 01:58:40

      Hi Christine.
      
      Dither: Ok you mentioned that you have applied POW dither. 24bit and dither?? This got me confused.
      
      Decoding: Same Problem. Obviously FMAK has the same problem. Why don't you upload a .wav or .raw
      

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      • The dithering is from 64-bits to 24-bits - Christine Tham 02:19:07 07/02/09 (5)
        In Reply to: RE: The file is in 24/44.1, encoded with the reference FLAC encoder posted by soundchekk on July 02, 2009 at 02:08:44

        Dithering is always a good idea when reducing sample depth.
        

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        • RE: The dithering is from 64-bits to 24-bits - Todd Krieger 10:26:43 07/02/09 (4)
          In Reply to: RE: The dithering is from 64-bits to 24-bits posted by Christine Tham on July 02, 2009 at 02:19:07

          The 24th bit is at -140 dB. Deep within the noise. Dithering isn't necessary.
          

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          • RE: The dithering is from 64-bits to 24-bits - Tony Lauck 10:35:55 07/02/09 (3)
            In Reply to: RE: The dithering is from 64-bits to 24-bits posted by Todd Krieger on July 02, 2009 at 10:26:43

            "The 24th bit is at -140 dB. Deep within the noise. Dithering isn't necessary."
            
            High end audio isn't necessary.
            
            Are you suggesting that adding dither at 24 bits hurts the sound? When do you think dither should be used?
            
            Tony Lauck
            
            "Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
            
            

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            • FWIW - Charles Hansen 22:43:21 07/03/09 (1)
              In Reply to: RE: The dithering is from 64-bits to 24-bits posted by Tony Lauck on July 02, 2009 at 10:35:55

              We found that going from 64 bits to 24 bits sounded better with rounding than dithering (+/-1 LSB TPDF). I was shocked that I could hear any difference at all, but there you have it. The improvement I heard from rounding instead of dithering did *not* want to make me spend a bunch of time trying different dithering algorithms.
              
              Christine, if you still have the 64 bit master files, you might try it both ways and see what you think. Or even post them on the board and let other people see what they think.
              
              Stereophile has an article on this same topic posted on their website. It was written by Keith Howard a few years ago. He reached the same conclusion, although he was going from 24 bits to 16 bits. That's what had us even try the experiment.

              • To dither or not to dither -- that is the question...   (Open in New Window)

              
              

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              • RE: FWIW - Tony Lauck 07:38:02 07/04/09 (0)
                In Reply to: RE: FWIW posted by Charles Hansen on July 03, 2009 at 22:43:21

                I have some ideas on dither algorithms you might try, if you decide to investigate them again for a new project. If you are interested send me an email. Perhaps at that time you will be looking at 32 bit chips and won't have any need for dithering.
                
                My experience reducing hi-res material to 44/16 format for release is similar to the Stereophile article. To do the best job possible mastering, it is necessary to fiddle with both the resampling and the dither. You are trying to fit 10 pounds in a 5 pound bag and it is an artistic judgement what to keep. But at the high sampling rates and bit depth inside a DAC, perhaps one size fits all...
                
                Tony Lauck
                
                "Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
                
                

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            • RE: The dithering is from 64-bits to 24-bits - Todd Krieger 10:50:31 07/02/09 (0)
              In Reply to: RE: The dithering is from 64-bits to 24-bits posted by Tony Lauck on July 02, 2009 at 10:35:55

              "Are you suggesting that adding dither at 24 bits hurts the sound?"
              
              I stated it wasn't necessary. At best, it wouldn't impact the sound at all. At worst, if there is a rounding issue involved (unlikely), it could alter the signal. It could also raise noise levels under some circumstances. Because at these levels, the dither will be only acting on the ambient noise, not the signal.
              
              My contention is, why use something if it isn't needed? In audio, if it isn't needed, it *might* (not necessarily will) degrade sound.
              
              "When do you think dither should be used?"
              
              I would guess truncating to 18 or fewer bits.
              
              To get a better answer to this question, this is a case where DBT evaluation would be valuable. Determine, by blind listening evaluation, where the threshold of audibility is for dither, as a function of wordlength.
              

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    • RE: The file is in 24/44.1, encoded with the reference FLAC encoder - Squonk 02:08:31 07/02/09 (1)
      In Reply to: RE: The file is in 24/44.1, encoded with the reference FLAC encoder posted by Christine Tham on July 02, 2009 at 01:58:40

      WinAmp plays the FLAC file just fine, but, DbPoweramp will not convert it to WAV. Some kind of error.
      

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      • Just checked on my end - the decoding error is in the metadata - Christine Tham 02:21:09 07/02/09 (0)
        In Reply to: RE: The file is in 24/44.1, encoded with the reference FLAC encoder posted by Squonk on July 02, 2009 at 02:08:31

        I think there must have been some problem editing the tags - I think the actual music data is fine.
        
        I'll try and post a version without metadata shortly.
        
        

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• RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) - soundchekk 01:20:56 07/02/09 (0)
  In Reply to: RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) posted by Christine Tham on July 01, 2009 at 16:38:00

  Problems with decoding.
  
  2_Laputa.flac: 90% complete02_Laputa.flac: *** Got error code 0:FLACSTREAM_DECODER_ERROR_STATUS_BAD_HEADER
  02_Laputa.flac: *** Got error code 0:FLACSTREAM_DECODER_ERROR_STATUS_BAD_HEADER
  02_Laputa.flac: *** Got error code 0:FLAC__STREAM_DECODER_ERROR_STATUS_LOST_SYNC
  
  
  

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• RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) - Todd Krieger 23:15:27 07/01/09 (2)
  In Reply to: RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) posted by Christine Tham on July 01, 2009 at 16:38:00

  

  Sounds very nice..... Very open..... I converted the file to broadcast WAV (BWF). My only criticism is the modulation peaks are only 50 percent (top waveform in pic) ..... You can potentially get out an extra 6 dB, and resolve more low-level information.
  

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  • Sorry, Todd, the track is mixed to be balanced with other tracks in the album - Christine Tham 02:03:35 07/02/09 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) posted by Todd Krieger on July 01, 2009 at 23:15:27

    Mixing it any louder would make it too loud in comparison with the other tracks.
    

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  • RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) - fmak 00:42:27 07/02/09 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) posted by Todd Krieger on July 01, 2009 at 23:15:27

    I downloaded a second time and neither FlacFrontEnd or Audition 3 will decode it. Says there is a Header codong error.
    
    I am not trying again.
    
    Forget about these troublesome compression codes which actually don't do very much in terms of savings.
    

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• RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) - Vincent VRS 17:57:45 07/01/09 (0)
  In Reply to: RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) posted by Christine Tham on July 01, 2009 at 16:38:00

  Thanks Christine, I just downloaded and will listen later tonight.
  

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• Just in case the URL link doesn't work - Christine Tham 16:43:55 07/01/09 (1)
  In Reply to: RE: Please try out some music I created and tell me what you think (of the recording quality) posted by Christine Tham on July 01, 2009 at 16:38:00

  Try this alternative one

  • Alternative Link to download dir   (Open in New Window)

  
  

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  • RE: Just in case the URL link doesn't work - fmak 23:04:21 07/01/09 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: Just in case the URL link doesn't work posted by Christine Tham on July 01, 2009 at 16:43:55

    Decompressing with FlacFrontEnd produces a decoding error.
    

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