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In Reply to: RE: add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one. posted by theob on April 01, 2009 at 04:21:11
Hi Theo,
This is exactly why I offered Cics too collect and update the scattered information on this project.
First there was this post on 2008-08-29:
Don't use "/nopae" optimisation (5.25) Posted by cics on 2008-08-29, 10:16:42
But 1,5 weeks later there was this one on 2008-09-08:
Further improvement is gained with "/nopae" optimisation (3.48)
Posted by cics on 2008-09-08, 05:00:19 (196.11.134.77)
I've edited the cMP Update post with this change (see bottom). Only use "/nopae" in the context described.
So I think many missed this post, because I see very few reply’s on this post.
That’s very strange because the difference in sound is significant.
I expected at least so see discussions on whether it is an improvement or an dis-improvement. But not even that. Nothing. No comments on SQ.
While all other (very little) tweaks are extensively discussed,
hardly anyone discusses this one on SQ.
But changes in sound (in my setup) are significant.
Sow I thought this post must be overlooked by many.
Too make a statement: in my setup it sounds not different, I think it sounds beter.
In what way beter? In the same way better, as the extra caps did on the Antec 430.
ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
Follow Ups:
- Please state conditions for using nopae - riboge 12:11:35 04/01/09 (14)
In Reply to: RE: better or worse SQ ? RE: add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one. posted by hfavandepas on April 01, 2009 at 04:50:18
I cannot find the update post that mentions \nopae. Could you please clarify what the circumstances are in which to use this.
- RE: Please state conditions for using nopae - hfavandepas 12:56:53 04/01/09 (13)
In Reply to: RE: Please state conditions for using nopae posted by riboge on April 01, 2009 at 12:11:35
Search for ‘nopae’ with the search function, and you wil find this post:
Further improvement is gained with "/nopae" optimisation (9.89)
Posted by cics on 2008-09-08, 05:00:19 (196.11.134.77)
I've edited the cMP Update post with this change (see bottom). Only use "/nopae" in the context described. .......
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=36517&highlight=nopae&r=
From here you go too:
cMP update:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/3/36343.html
Here you find the context described.
This is why I offered Cics toe help rewriting the documentation.
I think is have become too much scattered during time in al kinds of posts.
ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
- RE: Please state conditions for using nopae - riboge 16:07:27 04/01/09 (12)
In Reply to: RE: Please state conditions for using nopae posted by hfavandepas on April 01, 2009 at 12:56:53
I had seen those already, but it remains unclear. There is no mention of nopae in the Update. The update describes a system with Gigabyte mb, a specific E7200 cpu, and many settings including to turn Eist on in the bios (which someone reported was needed for /nopae to be helpful). Is the context the mb and cpu or is it also each and every instruction in the update or only some of them? It remains unclear if all these are necessary and on what basis all other mb's and cpus are ruled out. Couldn't it be that other combinations would benefit from /nopae, especially if they allow turning Eist on?
Writing a manual that makes things truly clear is not an easy thing. I can help if you like.
- why not just try it ? RE: Please state conditions for using nopae - hfavandepas 03:57:10 04/02/09 (11)
In Reply to: RE: Please state conditions for using nopae posted by riboge on April 01, 2009 at 16:07:27
Hi Riboge,
Thankx for your response.
Why not just try it? And let your ears decide.
I agry it’s unclear.
But in The Netherlands (where I live) we have a saying: ‘Proberen gaat boven studeren’.
Which means something like: ‘trying goes above (endless) studying’
And that’s what I did: I just tried it.
Risks of trying are low.
What worse things could happen if you try ?
Adding /nopea gave a significant difference in sound.
( /noexecute=alwaysoff /fastdetect /nopea /timeres=9800 /nodebug /pcilock /3GB )
I use the word ‘different’, because different isn’t always ‘beter’.
But to my ears it is significantly beter.
In what way beter?
In the same category of ‘beter’ than the ‘cap-mod’ on the P4-powerline and the P20/24 powerlines from the PSU to the mobo I did last weekend.
(with cheap caps, no expensive ‘audiophile’ caps)
I know sometimes it can be difficult to decide if a difference is also ‘better’
And also if one isn’t fooled by ‘the placebo-effect’
But what other options are there than just to try?
So let me know what your ears are telling you.
:-)
(system: mobo Gigabyte: ga-g31m-s2l bios: F9 Processor: intel E7200 RAM: 2 x 1Gb ram Kingston low latency KHX6400D2LL/1G1GB 800MHz DDR2 Non-ECC CL4.
I don’t use the EIST function with corresponding XP power-settings, since I can’t hear any sound differences when its ‘on’ or ‘off’. But I do see an extra 1 or 2 µs latency in dpclat when EIST + XP powersettings are enabled. So for the time being it stay’s off)
ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
- WATCH OUT for typo in parameter string... - gjwAudio 20:51:24 04/02/09 (3)
In Reply to: RE: why not just try it ? RE: Please state conditions for using nopae posted by hfavandepas on April 02, 2009 at 03:57:10
Hi hfavandepas
Great topic - The Lost Tweak !!
I mean no disrespect to anyone here, just a little pointer to my fellow cMP Comrades... Don't Be Lazy and cut-n-paste the entire parameter string from this post into your BOOT.INI file (...like I did).
You'll find the switch-in-question suffers a typo - "/nopEA" should be "/nopAE" (my uppercase, to indicate the trouble).
"Caveat" indeed !
Cheers,
Grant
That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!
- Microsoft helpfiles are confusing too. So keep try-ing - hfavandepas 02:55:10 04/03/09 (0)
In Reply to: RE: WATCH OUT for typo in parameter string... posted by gjwAudio on April 02, 2009 at 20:51:24
Still being somewhat ashamed (understatement) because of the typo i made (/nopea),
I again looked up the microsoft help-pages. These pages make the confusion complete
(links see below)
So just keep try-ing and give feedback on what your ears are telling you.
(though keep in mind the possibility of a placebo-effect)
Links to MS help pages:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/900524 says:
Disable PAE mode in Windows XP with SP2 and later versions of Windows XP
Add the following switches to the Windows XP Boot.ini file:
/noexecute=alwaysoff /NOPAE
For example, the Boot.ini file may appear as follows:
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP" /fastdetect /noexecute=alwaysoff /NOPAE
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms791539.aspx says:
DEP and PAE
On Windows XP with SP2, , when you disable DEP by using /noexecute=alwaysoff, Windows disables both DEP and PAE. This is the equivalent of using /noexecute=alwaysoff /nopae.
ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
- sh..... The typo (/nopea) was in my boot.ini ! Confusion complete - hfavandepas 00:40:21 04/03/09 (1)
In Reply to: RE: WATCH OUT for typo in parameter string... posted by gjwAudio on April 02, 2009 at 20:51:24
Hi Grant,
It's even more confusing too me now....
I ran to my cMP PC to see if the typo (/nopea) was in the boot.ini
And it was !!
:-(
Like I mentioned earlier in a post too Cics:
Microsoft writes about /nopae:
“On Windows XP with SP2, , when you disable DEP by using /noexecute=alwaysoff, Windows disables both DEP and PAE. This is the equivalent of using /noexecute=alwaysoff /nopae.”
See: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms791539.aspx
But what is happening in my PC, with this typo (/nopea) in my boot.ini ?
I definitely hear a significant difference in sound quality (better too my ears)
Does the typo disable ‘alwaysoff’?
I’m always very much aware of the possibility of the placebo-effect.
That’s why I always ask others to try too.
For now let’s wait what Cics has too say
ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
- Correct parameter makes POSITIVE Difference... - gjwAudio 11:31:11 04/03/09 (0)
In Reply to: RE: sh..... The typo (/nopea) was in my boot.ini ! Confusion complete posted by hfavandepas on April 03, 2009 at 00:40:21
Hi hfavandepas
Thanks for stirring up attention to this adjustment - in my setup, it makes the sound "better"... and that's another little step forward for the cMP Miracle.
As to what the MS documentation says... maybe the guy who wrote the doc hasn't talked to the guy who wrote the code... cause there's no placebo going on in my room - the change is real... and really welcome !
It's like getting new cPlay update from cics... just a little bit better every time.
Happy Listening All !
Cheers,
Grant
That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!
- RE: why not just try it ? RE: Please state conditions for using nopae - clare t 12:55:59 04/02/09 (2)
In Reply to: RE: why not just try it ? RE: Please state conditions for using nopae posted by hfavandepas on April 02, 2009 at 03:57:10
Thank you for bringing up the /nopae optimization. The SQ improvement is indeed too significant to be dismiss as a placebo. Soundstaging improved noticeably, and bass seems more defined.
- Cics brought it up. Thankx for trying /nopae and your feedback ! - hfavandepas 13:35:19 04/02/09 (1)
In Reply to: RE: why not just try it ? RE: Please state conditions for using nopae posted by clare t on April 02, 2009 at 12:55:59
Hi Clare t,
Cics brought it up. Not me. The honor goes too Cics.
But as Cics wasn’t sure about it, probably nobody really tried it.
There was hardly any response too Cics /nopae post.
But in my setup I think it’s better (not just different).
Thankx for trying and feedback.
Hope others will try it too and post there feed back
ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
- I meant thanks for bringing it to our attention, I wasn't even aware of its existence in the thread! nt. - clare t 13:42:19 04/02/09 (0)
In Reply to: RE: Cics brought it up. Thankx for trying /nopae and your feedback ! posted by hfavandepas on April 02, 2009 at 13:35:19
.
- Your edit seems to be a caveat - riboge 09:55:59 04/02/09 (3)
In Reply to: RE: why not just try it ? RE: Please state conditions for using nopae posted by hfavandepas on April 02, 2009 at 03:57:10
I have now tried it with my Lenovo thinkpad. It may be a slight improvement or the same, hard to be sure, certainly not worse.
My point was your edit about 'only in this context' implies a danger in doing it in a different one, e.g., mine. Perhaps it should say it is only known to help with these components and it is unknown whether there are problems with others.
- RE: Your edit seems to be a caveat - hfavandepas 10:24:47 04/02/09 (2)
In Reply to: RE: Your edit seems to be a caveat posted by riboge on April 02, 2009 at 09:55:59
‘Caveat’ ??? Hmm wonder what that means…..
I’m not a native English speaker. So you got me googl-ing on ‘caveat’
Now I understand what you mean.
The following piece of text was not mine. It’s the search-result of ‘nopae’. It’s Cics text.
If you do a search by yourself on ‘nopae’ you will see:
Further improvement is gained with "/nopae" optimisation (9.89)
Posted by cics on 2008-09-08, 05:00:19 (196.11.134.77)
I've edited the cMP Update post with this change (see bottom). Only use "/nopae" in the context described. .......
ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
- RE: Your edit seems to be a caveat - riboge 12:14:37 04/02/09 (1)
In Reply to: RE: Your edit seems to be a caveat posted by hfavandepas on April 02, 2009 at 10:24:47
Sorry, I guess I was even more confused than I realized. I read your post to mean you made the edit. I guess my comment was meant for cics. And I still haven't gotten over studying Latin in school. Caveat is Latin for Beware or Be Warned. Anyway, you got me to try nopae, so something good came of it.
- :-) No problem. At least you tried /nopae ! - hfavandepas 12:30:27 04/02/09 (0)
In Reply to: RE: Your edit seems to be a caveat posted by riboge on April 02, 2009 at 12:14:37
Hi Riboge,
No problem, can happen.
At least you tried /nopae
ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
- RE: better or worse SQ ? RE: add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one. - theob 05:48:49 04/01/09 (1)
In Reply to: RE: better or worse SQ ? RE: add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one. posted by hfavandepas on April 01, 2009 at 04:50:18
what can I say, I tried it, it does sound better. thank you.
- Hope others wil try it too ! RE: add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one. - hfavandepas 06:01:34 04/01/09 (0)
In Reply to: RE: better or worse SQ ? RE: add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one. posted by theob on April 01, 2009 at 05:48:49
Hi Theo,
Thank you for trying and your feedback.
I hope others wil try it too and give there feedback on this kernel optimasation.
Thankx
ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
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