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In Reply to: RE: Common!!!!! posted by Jonathan Tinn on February 07, 2009 at 11:41:27
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Like I said in the white paper, Firewire and Ethernet are both good possibilities for avoiding the jitter that is inherently added by S/PDIF (aka, AES/EBU,Toslink, etc.).
The problem with them is that they both require custom software to work -- at the very least custom device drivers. We made a decision that we would rather develop great new products than have to maintain computer software for all iterations of all operating systems on all hardware platforms.
Other people make different decisions. That is fine. If you find a Firewire DAC that meets your needs, then you should consider yourself happy. And for your sake, I hope that the manufacturer of your DAC continues to make the necessary device drivers for future operating systems, and that you can continue to find replacement computers that still have Firewire ports as you upgrade your hardware.
While I don't think that Firewire will disappear as fast as, say, an EISA slot (remember those?), it is clear that it is on the way out.
Like I said in the white paper, Firewire and Ethernet are both good possibilities for avoiding the jitter that is inherently added by S/PDIF (aka, AES/EBU,Toslink, etc.).
Glad you agree. My primary reason for choosing a firewire solution, besides the latency issue (or non-issue, as it were), was because I could have my cake and eat it too regarding hi-rez reproduction....I had no frequency limitations whatsoever.
The problem with them is that they both require custom software to work -- at the very least custom device drivers. We made a decision that we would rather develop great new products than have to maintain computer software for all iterations of all operating systems on all hardware platforms.
Charles....there's no problem. There are numerous pro companies that have been in business FOR YEARS, making highly reliable product. And their products have the necessary device drivers that make them reliable (in addition to their tried-and-true circuitry) and compatible for the various formats, or recording and mastering studios wouldn't be buying and operating them for these many years.
Other people make different decisions. That is fine. If you find a Firewire DAC that meets your needs, then you should consider yourself happy. And for your sake, I hope that the manufacturer of your DAC continues to make the necessary device drivers for future operating systems,
Re-read the above paragraph. Perhaps you are not as well-informed regarding the pro market, and the demands made by studios and live recording venues. The companies I'm referring to are among the best and most-respected in the industry. Some have created the technologies that must be bullet-proof in the field. No fly-by-nights, no start-ups, nor companies just entering the marketplace.
and that you can continue to find replacement computers that still have Firewire ports as you upgrade your hardware.
Now that's throwing up a straw man argument.
While I don't think that Firewire will disappear as fast as, say, an EISA slot (remember those?), it is clear that it is on the way out.
That wholly depends on who you talk to. I'll take my chances with tried-and-true pro companies, who have been around this block far longer, with proven technology. And you are overlooking the obvious....if the technology changes, you can be assured that pro companies will be at the forefront, not playing catchup with methodologies that are old hat.
I think the differences are just a matter of perspective.
The pro companies started working with computer audio many years ago, as it was a much cheaper way to do things than have dedicated, ground-up audio workstations. At that time, Firewire was being heavily promoted and people thought that USB was just for peripherals like mice and keyboards.
Apple was the main champion of Firewire, and they were about the only people that included it with their computers. If you were a professional audio person, having to buy a Mac instead of a PC in order to get Firewire wasn't a big deal. The computer only cost a small fraction of what ProTools or some of the other software packages did. So the whole pro industry focused on Macs and Firewire. That made complete sense given what was available and the needs of the pro industry.
But even Apple didn't think it was important enough to include support for Firewire audio devices, so the pro manufacturers were *forced* to write their own device drivers. (Not an easy task, but much easier than designing a complete computerized audio workstation from the ground up!)
But today is different, and we are designing for a different market. Most of our customers have PCs -- Apple still only has about a 10% market share, and even they are starting to drop Firewire from their products. So it doesn't really make sense for us to design something that has limited hardware support and requires custom device drivers. Not when we can design something that has universal hardware support and runs on the native drivers that come with the OS.
That doesn't mean that you should throw away your equipment and run out to buy new stuff. Obviously your equipment works great and there is no reason to change it. It's just that it wouldn't make sense for us to design a Firewire product in 2009.
I certainly don't question your business decisions, and your thorough explanation is completely sensible. I needed to point out that there are other very worthwhile solutions that already exist that exceed 24/96 (for those of us that wish to take advantage of the highest resolution files), are field-tested and proven, and manufactured by noteworthy pro companies. Their hardware and firmware was made for the long haul....recording and mastering studios will accept nothing less.I purchased what I purchased knowing I won't need to upgrade for perhaps a number of years. With over 2000 CD's, I have plenty of 16/44 material for years to come, but my setup (with pro-level mastering software) allows me to playback any hi-rez available up to 24/192, more of which will be coming in the not-too-distant future via download. In fact, more is coming out weekly.
As I stated earlier, I wanted my cake, etc. etc. That's why I waited as long as I did to make my purchases. If someone else is happy with the limitation of 24/96, or in the alternative, doesn't see that as a limitation, more power to them. There are many paths to Nirvana. The whole point is to enjoy the music, as Stevie R. always says.
But, I do take issue with this statement:
But even Apple didn't think it was important enough to include support for Firewire audio devices, so the pro manufacturers were *forced* to write their own device drivers. (Not an easy task, but much easier than designing a complete computerized audio workstation from the ground up!)
So?? And the pro manufacturers, stepped up and wrote those drivers....years ago. And they still operate easily and efficiently in a myriad of pro interfaces, many of which have implemented 24/192 for some time. And to them, 24/96 is already in the rear view mirror, with some product already being fazed out because of that limitation. State-of-the-art is now considered at 24/352.4K and 24/384K. Heck, Tim de Paravicini deduced the digital equivalent of the best analog reproduction at 24/384, perhaps 20 years ago. This ain't new information.
But in your view, what is the difference between what these manufacturers were required to do, so many years ago, and the hoops that Gordon has been jumping through (recently) to make USB work properly, at 24/96?
Edits: 02/07/09
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