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In Reply to: RE: Let the grenade throwing begin... posted by Charles Hansen on February 05, 2009 at 08:28:55
Do you think one day you will have a 'passive volume control' option with your USB DAC?
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If you are trying to save money or eliminate boxes, the best place to put a volume control is in the amplifier (ie, an integrated amp). Then you can hook up all the sources you want. Or just use one source, either way.
I agree, and ended up getting an integrated amp for the QB-9 and/or other future components in my computer system.The problem is that I ended up getting something from another company because Ayre's integrated is a bit on the weak side for inefficient speakers. Can we expect something along the lines of a 5-series integrated from Ayre in the foreseeable future?
Edits: 02/05/09
We've talked about it, but there isn't any definite plan to do so at the moment. Sorry.
One more question for somebody who ought to know (off-topic from the original post, I realize):I've always thought that an integrated amp could, in theory, be superior to a pre-amp/amp combination with an external connection between them. Any thoughts on the idea that an integrated amp is greater than, equal to, or less than separates if they are built with the same attention to detail and quality?
Edits: 02/05/09
Hard to say for sure. The advantage of an integrated is that you get rid of a pair of interconnects and two pairs of connectors. It's also less expensive, as you only need one chassis and one transformer.
On the other hand, it tends to be somewhat self-limiting. Our top-line monoblocks and preamp are $36,000 US retail. I suppose that we could make an integrated version for maybe $30,000 or os. I don't know that there would be a big market for $30,000 integrateds.
The other problem with integrateds is where to put them. Ideally the power amp is between the speakers to keep the speaker cables short. You could put an integrated there, but then it would have to be on a rack to be usable. And putting a rack between your speakers lessens the quality of the soundstage. So a lot of factors come into play.
The bottom line is that an integrated probably gives the best sound for the money and reduces the number of boxes. But if you want an all-out, no compromise system you probably need a separate preamp and a pair of monoblocks.
I agree, but, my speakers are active.
It's hard to please everybody.
If we added a volume control to the DAC, it would increase the price significantly. Then many people wouldn't buy it because the price was too high.
When you own active speakers, I think you have to realize that a preamp is pretty much going to have to be part of the deal. I guess you could get a Wadia or some other CD player with adjustable outputs. There just aren't that many sources with volume controls.
One of the problems is that a good sounding volume control ain't cheap. In the old days people just used potentiometers with carbon tracks. They sound OK, but not great. Nowadays people want balanced (which requires tracking within better than 1% between the phases), remote operation (which adds cost or places constraints or both), and good sound quality (perhaps the most difficult task).
The volume control in our $3,000 preamp is pretty darned good -- about as good as our competitor's $15,000 preamp. But the one in our $9,000 preamp is even better. And the one in our $18,000 preamp is better than that. The point is that a good volume control ain't cheap....
I see. Thank you VERY much for your advice. Maybe it would be better if I kept the GFP-750 instead of trying to eliminate it. My choices have to be thought out extensively to get the best bang for the buck (I ain't rich). That's why I was looking for a DAC/volume control option. But, if the quality of the volume control in a DAC is inferior to my passive pre-amp, then maybe I should keep my GFP-750.
If I were you, I would use a digital volume control in your player software. Then taking care to keep your volume control down (and all O/S noises have to have been thoroughly exorcised) see how much digital attenuation you customarily use. Find a setting for which 99% of the time you never need to go louder. That will be the attenuation you should use for your analog gain. Then make up a resistor network for each channel, consisting of a voltage divider and place it right at the line level input of each active speaker.
If you never listen to anything but your computer then you don't need the switching capabilities of a preamp, nor the phono capabilities. No preamp, no matter how good, is going to beat a passive voltage divider in sound quality, if that divider is placed right at the amplifier input. You will lose a small amount of resolution from your DAC if you customarily use much digital attenuation, but I'll bet it is considerably less than you will lose going through a preamp.
I have an amp with its own volume control, which I have set once and never change. It is set so that reference level pink noise (-20dbfs RMS) out each speaker is at 83 db at my seating position. (86 db when both speakers are playing) This is sufficient to play all genres of music and corresponds to the level at which most records were monitored when they were being mastered. For critical listening when the neighbors are away I keep my digital gain at 0 and listen at these levels. For quiet listening I turn down the volume with the software gain control in the player.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
I've never heard the GFP-750, but I did see some comments on it a few months ago in one of the AA forums. Most of the posters were less keen on it than the reviewers were when it came out....
In general, a passive preamp can give good bang for the buck but won't sound as good as a good active preamp. The sins of a passive tend to sins of omission. The main thing that goes away is dynamics, although I have no idea why this would be so.
As far as DACs with volume controls, obviously it depends on the particular implementation. I can't think of any off the top of my head, so I can't comment.
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